What if I go with tubular arms? - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions & more.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 9:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Cool deal, I'm getting excited about this suspension stuff now haha. I just hope I can get it done myself in the 3 or 4 days I will take off from work. Anyone going to be in NorCal in early 2010 to help me do the tear out and install?

And Tony, heck no I won't ever put other/bigger wheels. This baby is staying a classeeek! Haha. No resto-mod here (no offense to resto-mods, I just like the original look of the crappy 14x7 wheels)

Sergio
1969 SS396
MJ 467/M20/3.55
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Just moved to San Diego!!!

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 9:19 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Sergio,Good Luck Do It right ~~~~
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 11:46 AM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

gonna be awesome.

"I know a lot about cars, man. I can look at any cars headlights and tell you exactly which way its coming." - Mitch Hedberg
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 12:16 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio69SS396 View Post
heck no I won't ever put other/bigger wheels. This baby is staying a classeeek! Haha. No resto-mod here (no offense to resto-mods, I just like the original look of the crappy 14x7 wheels)
Not even repro 15" versions of the SS wheels?

Yeah, I'd put the upper SPC arms on with the tall BJs... Its just the lower tubulars... Pretty expensive for no significant benefit except looks ( but I thought you wanted the "classic" look )...

Have you checked the prices on having your current lower arms inspected and rebuilt (using the BJs from Mark)?

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
TC #1366

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 12:43 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

1966_L78 hit it out of the park with his post. Exactly spot on. Lots of confusion out there about the meaningful benefit of switching just to non adjustable tubular control arms.

TXCR13
1966 Chevelle 300 2dr Sedan
385, Flat Top Hypers, Performer RPM, S.M.I. 750 Q-Jet, 72cc Dart Platinum 200cc runners, U.D. Harold 223/233 112 LSA Cam, 700-R4, PS, Manual Disc Brakes, AC, Hedman headers with 2-1/2" exhaust.

1946 Studebaker Coupe- street gasser finally underway!
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 12:52 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Well, I just can't help throwing a little high octane on the embers, borrowing from my post on another topic:

'Tis not the season to do so, but I will toss the first bomb:
80% of the people who use poly bushings aren't too pleased with the difference in ride.
85% of high dollar tubular control arm buyers can't feel a difference in handling during normal driving.
90% of the high dollar tubular control arm buyers had second thoughts about the performance benefit of their expenditures during 99.9% of total driving time.
100% of high dollar tubular control arm buyers are happy with their appearance and one-upping a few Chevelle owners.
From the other side of the tracks:
95% of Chevelle owners who rebuilt front ends with stock parts like 'em just fine.
100% of the 95% who paid less for stock rebuilds had the resulting cost savings available for the purchase of beer & pizza.

Puttin' on my body armor...bullets flyin' my way soon!

TXCR13
1966 Chevelle 300 2dr Sedan
385, Flat Top Hypers, Performer RPM, S.M.I. 750 Q-Jet, 72cc Dart Platinum 200cc runners, U.D. Harold 223/233 112 LSA Cam, 700-R4, PS, Manual Disc Brakes, AC, Hedman headers with 2-1/2" exhaust.

1946 Studebaker Coupe- street gasser finally underway!
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 1:47 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Thanks for the kind words guys. In the FWIW dept. my info on the Moog (and TRW for that matter) suspension parts came from industry insiders who claim that the parts marked Made in USA are only assembled in the USA of Chinese parts. If that`s not true and they are made in USA that would be great. I`m all for it. However when I compare, for example, the new Moog ball joints to the ones in my ball joint collection the older ones are much nicer quality and actually look like a totally different manufacturer made them.

In regard to the 14" wheels, we have tested and used our tall ball joint packages on cars with factory 14" wheels many times. There`s lots of room. There might be an issue if you had 14" wheels with 4.5"+ of backspacing but I don`t know of anyone even making wheels that fit that description.

It`s true to say that almost all tubular lower A arms do little if anything for performance. The exception to the rule would be SPC`s tubular lowers that in addition to greasable delrin bushings, strong/light construction, blah blah blah also offer shim adj. ride height over a range of up to 3 3/4"(!), the ability to also run a crossbar style coil over or Shockwave (and adj. ride height in addition to their own), modern progressive rate jounce bumpers and revised geometry to maximize tire clearance with performance caster settings. These things have been a big help in our shop to dial in stance and solve tire clearance issues alone. They also look cool, of course. Mark SC&C
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 3:49 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

I hate to differ with you but your insiders are wrong.A parts box can have the following stamped :ASSEMBLED IN THE USA OR MADE IN THE USA,their is a difference,that is why it is stamped that way.When the product states MADE IN THE USA IT IS,assembled could mean anything....On Chevelle's the only part not made in the USA is bushings which is made in Mexico and they are made by Harris which is a very old and respected name in the automotive aftermarket.As for Moog their current Problem Solver line is constantly updated to solve steering and suspension problems.Their ball joints come through with hd rubber boots,and the lowers are knurled to stay where they are supposed to. Vintage Chevelle as well as Camaro and Firebird models use a very limited number of Moog front end part numbers and I consistenly check those numbers for accuracy and country of orgin and they are MADE IN THE USA. I hope this helps out team members because there is alot of great companies who still make great products for their classic cars. Bob Rizzi
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 4:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Yea, I was thinking about reusing my lowers because Mark's are $550/pr. He said I could reuse mine and still have the greatly added benefits of the taller balljoints. Unless you're under the car, or looking under the car, you can't ever really see the lower arms so I'll be okay on my original look.

I guess I will have a 10% resto-mod huh? I can live with that.

I'm gonna count my pennies after Xmas is over. Hopefully the bleeding stops from my holiday shopping and I start working 12hr days again, and I'll get the lower arms.

Anyone have an idea of what it costs to media blast my lower arm and press in new bushings? I guess I should call some machine shops.

Sergio
1969 SS396
MJ 467/M20/3.55
TC #5509
Just moved to San Diego!!!

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 4:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Oh and TXCR13, that was a hilarious post. Got a good chuckle out of it, thanks.

Sergio
1969 SS396
MJ 467/M20/3.55
TC #5509
Just moved to San Diego!!!

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 4:43 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio69SS396 View Post
Yea, I was thinking about reusing my lowers because Mark's are $550/pr. He said I could reuse mine and still have the greatly added benefits of the taller balljoints... I'm gonna count my pennies after Xmas is over. Hopefully the bleeding stops from my holiday shopping and I start working 12hr days again, and I'll get the lower arms.

Anyone have an idea of what it costs to media blast my lower arm and press in new bushings? I guess I should call some machine shops.
I guess thats the point I was trying to make... Mark's arms are nice, and do offer added beenfits beyond typical tubular arms.... BUT, it just didn't seem to really be what Sergio was after...

Better handling on more of a budget, while trying to retain the stock (classic") look... Get the SPC upppers and spray them "chassic Black"... few will notice the visual difference, but you will get the benefits...

Also, I wouldn't totally forget about Mark's arms... I'd have a shop blast the arms and check for cracks... If good, then have them press in Mark's Ball Joints... IF you stock arms are bad, thats when I'd consider Mark's arms or welding reinforcements OVER buying questionable reproduction arms ( Made in China? Questionable specs? and cost is part-way to the SPCs anyway)...

Bushings... Poly can squeak, and can be harsh... With stock 14-inch wheels, I think NEW rubber bushing might be best... Can Mark or someone get higher-durometer rubber bushing (I thought I have heard of them)? New rubber, and the car will still handle close to poly (all else being equal). Your smaller tires will limit the forces that would deflect the bushings...


Really want to improve the "feel"? Get all the new quality steering linkage, and get a new./rebuilt steering box... You probably don't need the fancy new600 box, but Mark (or others) could set you up with a Lee box for greater feel, but I think its still a lengthy wait time for Lee ( last summer, I think Mark was mentioning 6-8 weeks because good cores were getting harder to find) unless you have a core or send in your current box... Lee actually inspects/rebuilds/blueprints YOUR box, provided its acceptible, so it takes a few days plus shipping both ways.

If you are limited in the time the car can be down, then I'd consider something like an AGR box from Summit... These start at $330 ($12 shipping/handling), and they are offering $20 "Summit Bucks" for getting the AGR before December 31st... I think Summit also has a 10% off deal going now (coupon code)... So basically $300 with a $20 coupon for later purchases... And it uses your current hoses and rag-joint.

I am getting the AGR box the week after Christmas, and probably installing it in January/February, along with Mark's Stage 2 setup...

New steering linkage, new bushings, shocks, BJ, fresh steering box with "firmer" feel... It will be like a new car, even with the 14-inch wheels...

Call some shops and get prices for bushings and balljoints... I just had some of Mark's BJs pressed into my arms ( CPP tubular lowers I have had since before the SPCs came out)... $15 each...

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
TC #1366

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Last edited by 1966_L78; Dec 16th, 09 at 5:00 PM.
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 09, 5:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Thanks Tony, good advise

Sergio
1969 SS396
MJ 467/M20/3.55
TC #5509
Just moved to San Diego!!!

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