Poor brake performance after Wilwood install - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 19, 9:56 PM Thread Starter
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Tom
 
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Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

I upgraded my 1969 BBC from factory type front calipers to the two-piston factory replacement units by Wilwood. The booster is a Moraine factory style unit. The last time I had to stomp on the pedal was about 8 years ago and all 4 locked up. Now, I have to stomp extra hard to get the tires to even squeal. Should the Wilwood units match or even outperform the factory units? I also used the pads that came with the new calipers.
Perhaps my system has degraded since the last emergency stop. If so, could the booster be weak? In normal driving I do not notice any difference in operation. Idle and cruising vac is around 19 in.hg and there is a vac reservoir.
What are your thoughts?
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Tom
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 19, 10:59 PM
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Brian
 
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I have the wilwoods front calipers as well. Also used their pads. I agree with you the stopping power is pretty weak. I haven’t had time to bleed them again, but I’m hoping that fixes it?

If not, maybe a more aggressive pad?
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 19, 7:45 AM
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

The BP-10 pads that come with the D52 Calipers suck. I always have good luck with the PolyMatrix E Compound for street driving.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 19, 8:29 AM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

Did wilwood supply any information on bedding in the pads correctly? Some pads need a special break in procedure to perform properly. Or they could be "race" pads that only work well once heated up.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 19, 9:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

Yes, Wilwood provided simple instructions for breaking in the pads. Nothing special about the procedure.

Tom
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 19, 9:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

I am going to make sure there is no vacuum leak in the circuit.
I will also install the previous pads if I saved them.

Tom
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 19, 10:08 AM
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

I also have Wilwood on my 66 that looks to be the same as your setup. I struggled to get the performance that I expected. I found that the bedding procedure helped but I also bought another master cylinder that dropped the piston diameter down from 1 1/8" to 1".
I'm happy with the brakes now.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 19, 9:44 AM
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Pat
 
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

In my opinion the D52 calipers alone are not much of a step up from factory as far as performance, most people install them to have the look of a Wilwood caliper. I had them on my Camaro
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 19, 3:25 PM
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

always good to keep in mind that the area of a D52 caliper piston is about 6.7 sq in. If you install a caliper that's different from that there will likely be issues. Now, D52 front brakes are "mature" technology, known since 69 or so. It's a pet peeve of mine that the companies that sell expensive brake "upgrades" continue to sell calipers that don't work with stock M/C or M/Cs that don't work with the stock calipers. So, a guy buys nice new shiny red calipers just to find out he has very poor braking performance. So, it turns out that now that he has the shiny new calipers ha has to also change out the master cylinder to get his brakes back. Why don't they just tell customers that they'll havce to buy a new master to match their new calipers? Whatta PITA.

Tom, are you really in Peoria? we should meet.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 19, 9:43 PM
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
always good to keep in mind that the area of a D52 caliper piston is about 6.7 sq in. If you install a caliper that's different from that there will likely be issues. Now, D52 front brakes are "mature" technology, known since 69 or so. It's a pet peeve of mine that the companies that sell expensive brake "upgrades" continue to sell calipers that don't work with stock M/C or M/Cs that don't work with the stock calipers. So, a guy buys nice new shiny red calipers just to find out he has very poor braking performance. So, it turns out that now that he has the shiny new calipers ha has to also change out the master cylinder to get his brakes back. Why don't they just tell customers that they'll havce to buy a new master to match their new calipers? Whatta PITA.

Tom, are you really in Peoria? we should meet.
I agree 100%. Brake manufactures should help more with caliper/master cylinder coordination because itís important. I had issues with a change to a Wilwood at all 4 coroners and a new MC without boost. All that I learned AFTER the install would have helped in advance.
But in Wilwoods defense, I bought all the components through Summit without asking all of the questions I should have asked.
My bad.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 19, 9:50 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

The caliper alone is no performance upgrade, but shouldn't be much different than stock with equal friction pads. I'd recommend going to a more aggressive pad as others have suggested. I have tried the BP10, BP20, E compound, and B compound.

BP20's are slightly better, I'd definitely run those over the BP10s.

E and B compounds are night and day different over the BP10s. The B compound is very noisy and makes a lot of dust. E doesn't have the noise, but they are still dusty.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 19, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
always good to keep in mind that the area of a D52 caliper piston is about 6.7 sq in. If you install a caliper that's different from that there will likely be issues. Now, D52 front brakes are "mature" technology, known since 69 or so. It's a pet peeve of mine that the companies that sell expensive brake "upgrades" continue to sell calipers that don't work with stock M/C or M/Cs that don't work with the stock calipers. So, a guy buys nice new shiny red calipers just to find out he has very poor braking performance. So, it turns out that now that he has the shiny new calipers ha has to also change out the master cylinder to get his brakes back. Why don't they just tell customers that they'll havce to buy a new master to match their new calipers? Whatta PITA.

Tom, are you really in Peoria? we should meet.
The piston area is why I chose the D52s, came in a set with cylinder, dual 8” booster, etc and work really well on the front of my ‘66.

I am using the BP10 pads, fair amount of dust, might try the E compound suggested here.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 19, 1:11 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

I get by with those D52 Wilwood replacement calipers on 12-inch rotors with 12 inches of vacuum, a 9-inch booster, a manual proportioning valve, and an ugly Cadilac 18M95 master cylinder. Slightly better than the common GM big single piston calipers were. If I had 19 inches of vacuum they would be better than they are. The pads they come with aren't much fun when they are cold, and they do put out a lot of dust.

Tom M has a good point about the hidden costs associated with making bigger over-priced aftermarket brakes work.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 19, 8:35 AM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

The stock D52 system is fine, just use Porterfield R4-S pads and matching rear brake shoes with it.. Porterfield is the only company that makes shoes with the same compound and the pads.. Having them match makes a world of difference. Another thing, remove those self adjusters and adjust manually, checking side to side bias. This makes a big difference in handling!
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 19, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor brake performance after Wilwood install

I was not aware of Porterfield. The R4-S looks good.

Thanks to all for the good info.

Tom
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