Anyone go BACK to stock suspension? - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions & more.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 1:03 PM
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Greg.
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Pat here is the Specs Ramey gave me for my 67 with the Old School Suspension in 2017

I Need Alignment Specs for the UMI Perf Tubular Control Arms # 403133
64-72 GM A-Body Tubular Upper & Lower Front A-Arm Kit [403133] - $1,149.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.
with the Moroso Trick Springs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/47195/10002/-1
and the Comp Eng Shocks set at 80/20
http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-En.../2610/10002/-1

Ramey's Answer ;
​5-6 DEG CASTER OR HOWEVER MUCH HE CAN PUT IN IT.
FOR A DRAG CAR MORE CASTER CREATES A MORE STABLE TOP END AND THE CAR DOESN'T WANDER AS MUCH.

0.25 DEG NEG CAMBER

1/16" TOE IN OR AS LITTLE AS 1/32" IF YOU DON'T PUT MANY STREET MILES ON IT.
RUNNING DOWN THE TRACK WITH ZERO TOE GIVES MAXIMUM TRAP SPEED.
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67 Chevelle Malibu SS Cdn
Born 283 / PG / A51
468/TH400 2,500 stall/ S60 3.70 Gs
Prev Best on M/T ET S/S #3454 street Tires/Dress 2018/05/20
60' = 1.664
1/8 = 7.532 et / 91 mph
1/4 = 11.814 et / 115 mph
NEW Best with 3,500+ Stall TC 2019/06/23
60' = 1.561
1/8 = 7.411 et / 90.18 mph
1/4 = ??.??? et / ??? mph


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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 1:12 PM Thread Starter
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Pat
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanniziomas View Post
No maybe, stock suspension sucks. I have Global West Control arms in the front of my 66 and did the alignment myself, had NO issues getting around 6 caster, whatever camber I choose, toe, etc.

Find another guy or do the alignment yourself.

I disagree, stock suspension does not "suck" I have run it on many cars in the past and had it on this Chevelle with zero issues. For a street car there is absolutely nothing wrong with stock. Are there advantages to more modern setup, I am sure there are.


I put it on my car to go with the restomod theme I was going for not because I really needed the performance advantage it supposedly is capable of.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 1:14 PM Thread Starter
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Pat
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk's67SS View Post
Pat here is the Specs Ramey gave me for my 67 with the Old School Suspension in 2017

I Need Alignment Specs for the UMI Perf Tubular Control Arms # 403133
64-72 GM A-Body Tubular Upper & Lower Front A-Arm Kit [403133] - $1,149.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.
with the Moroso Trick Springs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/47195/10002/-1
and the Comp Eng Shocks set at 80/20
http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-En.../2610/10002/-1

Ramey's Answer ;
​5-6 DEG CASTER OR HOWEVER MUCH HE CAN PUT IN IT.
FOR A DRAG CAR MORE CASTER CREATES A MORE STABLE TOP END AND THE CAR DOESN'T WANDER AS MUCH.

0.25 DEG NEG CAMBER

1/16" TOE IN OR AS LITTLE AS 1/32" IF YOU DON'T PUT MANY STREET MILES ON IT.
RUNNING DOWN THE TRACK WITH ZERO TOE GIVES MAXIMUM TRAP SPEED.



Ramey and the guys are normally at the fall Carlisle show. I was going to contact him and see if they happen to bring a portable camber/caster gauge with them that I could maybe bring the car up to them.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 1:19 PM
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Greg.
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Pat the 2013 #s for the Coil Overs
and the 2017 #s for the Shock & Coil Springs
are basically the same

Go figure, I thought they would/could be different
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67 Chevelle Malibu SS Cdn
Born 283 / PG / A51
468/TH400 2,500 stall/ S60 3.70 Gs
Prev Best on M/T ET S/S #3454 street Tires/Dress 2018/05/20
60' = 1.664
1/8 = 7.532 et / 91 mph
1/4 = 11.814 et / 115 mph
NEW Best with 3,500+ Stall TC 2019/06/23
60' = 1.561
1/8 = 7.411 et / 90.18 mph
1/4 = ??.??? et / ??? mph


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 1:51 PM
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Brian
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

I may have missed it, but I don't see where you mention which brand of components you have. If they are not from a company like UMI BMR, Global West, or Hotchkiss, then that may be why there are problems. Do you have good name brand components installed, or are they just the 'whatever Chinese boat they came off of' tubular control arms?? The shop I use had no problems at all aligning my 71 with UMI upper/lowers.

1971 Malibu, factory buckets/full gauges/console, 377 roller cammed small block, Turbo 400, 3.42 10 bolt posi (Buick), - All your base are belong to us.
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 2:18 PM Thread Starter
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Pat
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakkoWarner View Post
I may have missed it, but I don't see where you mention which brand of components you have. If they are not from a company like UMI BMR, Global West, or Hotchkiss, then that may be why there are problems. Do you have good name brand components installed, or are they just the 'whatever Chinese boat they came off of' tubular control arms?? The shop I use had no problems at all aligning my 71 with UMI upper/lowers.

UMI front to back..and those guys have been great.So this is no way a bash on them. Was just sharing an experience I had.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 2:53 PM
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pats70ss View Post
UMI front to back..and those guys have been great.So this is no way a bash on them. Was just sharing an experience I had.
Then I would place the blame on the alignment guy. There is no way that he can tell me that he can't get the alignment done correctly with those parts. I would call around and find a shop that knows how to do custom alignments - take it them and see what they say.
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1971 Malibu, factory buckets/full gauges/console, 377 roller cammed small block, Turbo 400, 3.42 10 bolt posi (Buick), - All your base are belong to us.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 3:50 PM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bracketchev1221 View Post
Unless you were trying to go corner carving with it, I would keep the stock stuff. ...
I did try to corner carve and had the UMI guys taking pics of me.


*Jeff*

Project Salty - 1964 4 door Malibu, beaten, neglected, red headed foster child
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 19, 5:33 PM
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pats70ss View Post
I currently have a complete aftermarket suspension on my car. Upper and lower control arms and coilovers on the front. The car was not driving right so I took it to a guy know here in the area as being the best alignment guy around, but he is very old school. I had cars to him in the past so knew what to expect. He ripped me for about 20 minutes on how I ruined the nicest Chevelle he ever saw by putting the aftermarket stuff on the front suspension. He said for a street car the only way to go is stock parts with rubber bushings. He was also showing me how my tie rods run at a very sharp angle and should be basically parallel to the road and he could not get the camber caster even close to what they were designed to be from GM. He was sayin how the POLY has no return and it essentially binds the car.


He chewed me for quite a while and said pretty much all he could do was get the toe right., said the geometry was just WAY off.He is a grumpy man but do think he knows his stuff. But I also know tons of guys run the aftermarket stuff.


So curious if anyone went back to stock and if they are glad they did..


I figure with everyone going tubular and coilovers, stock should be pretty easy to find and mine easy to sell
No answer your question,.......No.

'67 Chevelle Malibu, Catalina Blue, 540 inch Rat, Air Flow Reasearch 290 CNC Heads heads, Custom Hyd Roller, .675 lift, 234, 244 at .050, Lemons Headers, Holley Multiport Fuel Injection, TCI 6X 6Speed Automatic, 12 bolt Posi Eaton TruTrac, 3:31 Richmond Gears, front and rear power disc brakes, Global West Suspension, etc.

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 19, 8:33 AM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

If drag racing, I would think you would want the camber as close to zero as possible to take the friction from camber thrust off the bearings..
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 19, 10:32 AM
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

The stock stuff and geometry works fine in straight lines at legal speeds and below. But there is huge benefits to more caster at higher speeds. Taller ball joints are also a huge help in corners because the stock height spindles cause caster gain under compression which is exactly opposite of what you want.

If you were in my area I would align it for you or swap you for my stock parts. If you put stock parts back in and the car feels unstable in spirited cornering situations don't blame the alignment tech. There's only so much he can do.

70 Camino...Roller

69 Malibu Stock 307, Reverse Manual TH350, 4,500 Stall Edge Converter, 4.56 Spool 35 Spline 12 Bolt

76 C20 VortecPro 496 628HP 655 lb/ft TH400 Edge Converter, 4.10 14 bolt
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 19, 10:43 AM
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Re: Anyone go BACK to stock suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydro462 View Post
If drag racing, I would think you would want the camber as close to zero as possible to take the friction from camber thrust off the bearings..
In a drag racing situation you are correct. But with stock ball joints and spindles to achieve this you need to have positive static camber because stock geometry causes camber loss on extension. How much depends on how much rise you get going down the track. You would also set your toe to 0" with the front end lifted to the height it goes down the track. Which then means you are toed out at static.

But on the street set up like that you probably wouldn't like how the car drove. Positive camber with a spool and skinnies on the front equals pushing in corners. My Malibu is set up this way for now. It sucks.
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70 Camino...Roller

69 Malibu Stock 307, Reverse Manual TH350, 4,500 Stall Edge Converter, 4.56 Spool 35 Spline 12 Bolt

76 C20 VortecPro 496 628HP 655 lb/ft TH400 Edge Converter, 4.10 14 bolt
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