Wheel hop issues, looking to learn... - Chevelle Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions & more.

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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 9:25 AM Thread Starter
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Shawn
 
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Post Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Hi All -

Before I get flamed, I've already scrubbed the site and I'm citing the last conversation I referenced on this topic at the bottom.

Since I was a kid, all I wanted was a light to light car that would light 'em up and do reasonable burnouts on demand. It's a '68 300 with a Blueprint 355 (375hp, alum heads, etc), 700r4, and pretty much everything out back is new. Still the original 10 bolt, but new 373 gears (Yukon posi, Richmond ring gear), new boxed lowers (square channel, not modified stamped steel), new adjustable uppers, new bushings, new springs and shocks, and a swaybar. Control arms have heim joints in the front, upper bushings I guess are rubber. They're 'red' vs black, but seem softer than I would expect urethane to be.

I'm currently going for a day two, 70's street machine vibe. I'm running Cooper Cobra, 235/60/15 & 275/60/15 on Torque Thrusts. The new springs are wagon springs and about 2.5" taller than the stock ones and set the stance perfectly (IMO) and allowed me to ditch the air shocks. I'm not part of the low and tuck crowd, I like it tall. That said, I'm posting now because I can't seem to get rid of the wheel hop. With the car leveled on stands, I've got -4* at the tailshaft and balancer (checked both to be sure) and I set the pinion to -1*, so total is -5*, right? Is that too much? As long as it's not allowing positive rotation over 0 under torque it should be fine, right? I don't understand why it's still hopping. What am I missing? HELP!!

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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 9:44 AM
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Rich
 
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

If you want to get rid of wheelhop, you'll have to get the rear of the car lower. You want to have the control arms as parallel to the ground as possible. You can buy a number of different parts that could help (no hop bars, do a search). One style changes the upper control arm mounting point another style uses altered lower control arms.

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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 9:45 AM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Drop the ass end down and the wheel hop will go away. Lower bar should be parallel with the ground.
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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Shawn
 
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

I thought it was all about deflection of the suspension and how it negatively impacted pinion roll? So you're telling me that no one, not in '68 and not now, can run a mildly raked stance like this w/o axle wrap/wheel hop? Even before I went up to 275s and the taller springs, the stock lower arms weren't anywhere near parallel to the ground. The car would have to come down substantially to accomplish that and then it'd be lower than the front and look like a gasser. My neighbor has a '68 Malibu vert, 110% stock, 14" wheels and all. His rear lowers aren't even parallel.

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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 11:28 AM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

As shipped Chevelles didn't suffer from wheelhop. It's only when the owners modifed the suspension/tires that wheelhop was induced. Keep in mind that as shipped these cars sat low in the rear. BTW: Pinion Angle has zero to do with wheelhop.

When we modify the height of the rear end we modify the geometry of the 4 link suspension: the Upper Control Arms (UCA) in particular. The rear mounting point of the UCA "goes down" in relation to the frame. One "solution" then is to add "No Hop Bars" which move the rear mounting point of the UCA up towards where they were (restores the original UCA angle).

By lowering the rear of your car you are restoring the geometry of the 4 link. But you may dislike that look. Please look at my Garage. My car has a stance similar to yours, and she no longer suffers from wheelhop (but then she's not setup to do the 1/4 mile).

You need to do extensive research on the interweb to gain a fuller understanding of the 4 link suspension.

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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 11:46 AM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

It's the UPPER arm that needs to be parallel to the ground. Getting the lower parallel isn't really possible with stock parts nor desirable with regard to instant center/anti-squat. You're probably going to need no-hops if you're going to stick with that look.

FWIW- my Malibu is lowered 2 in the rear and the lower control arm isn't close to parallel. The upper arms incline from the frame to the axle. My car is probably slightly low if I were to shoot for an ideal anti-squat with stock mounting positions.

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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 11:57 AM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

While my car does not wheel with a 100% stock suspension, I do recommend the no hops too. I have driven a few cars equipped with them over the years and gotta say they work as advertised.
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Shawn
 
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy the Cat View Post
It's the UPPER arm that needs to be parallel to the ground. Getting the lower parallel isn't really possible with stock parts nor desirable with regard to instant center/anti-squat. You're probably going to need no-hops if you're going to stick with that look.

FWIW- my Malibu is lowered 2 in the rear and the lower control arm isn't close to parallel. The upper arms incline from the frame to the axle. My car is probably slightly low if I were to shoot for an ideal anti-squat with stock mounting positions.
Gotcha, apologies for the misunderstanding. I have always wondered how anyone could achieve that haha.

OK, I'm doing my research on IC and it looks like some no-hops are in my future. Lift bars are about the same price, but ultimately wouldn't do anything to correct the UCA geometry.

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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:30 PM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

I agree with the others, The front is WAY HIGH, Also the back end is WAY WAY & WAY toooooooooooooooooo High! Kinda Sorta looks like my F.W.D. Silverado. With all due respect, That was the " LOOK " in the 70s.
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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:47 PM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

replaced " all bushings". Even the ones in the pumpkin's ears? These are what caused 85% of my wheel hop.

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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinls5 View Post
I agree with the others, The front is WAY HIGH, Also the back end is WAY WAY & WAY toooooooooooooooooo High! Kinda Sorta looks like my F.W.D. Silverado. With all due respect, That was the " LOOK " in the 70s.
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No offense taken. I like it sitting tall. It's not 4x4 yet, I can't change my oil w/o ramps yet haha.

I always thought my front springs sat tall, like maybe they were big block springs. I didn't install them, so I'm not sure. Take a look at NickeyChevelle's '69, his is the only other one I've seen where the front end is up high enough to see the top of the tire clearly - like mine. He's running the same tires sizes as well, so it's a good comparison. I'll try the no-hops, looks like QA1s are all the Summit and the like offer, and see what happens. If all else fails I'll have to bring it back down.

Thanks everyone for the input and quick replies. I love this site!

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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
replaced " all bushings". Even the ones in the pumpkin's ears? These are what caused 85% of my wheel hop.
Yes sir. I think they're rubber, but they're new. I even went up the drive line and replaced the output shaft bushing when I did this job. I discovered it was worn when replacing the driveshaft. Obviously, that has nothing to do with wheel hop or the rear suspension, just my due diligence haha
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:51 PM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

TA Performance (IMHO) makes the best no-hop bars you can get for the A body cars (part number 2042.)

They aren't as tall and as angled as the QA1 or Edelbrock ones and are much less likely to hit your floors, and you can still get the drain plug in and out with the TA Performance ones installed, and they have very good hardware as well.

You can find pictures of them here: http://www.taperformance.com/PDF/TAP...ce_Catalog.pdf

Look on catalog page 146 (or just search for "no hop".)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel0Yel068 View Post
No offense taken. I like it sitting tall. It's not 4x4 yet, I can't change my oil w/o ramps yet haha.

I always thought my front springs sat tall, like maybe they were big block springs. I didn't install them, so I'm not sure. Take a look at NickeyChevelle's '69, his is the only other one I've seen where the front end is up high enough to see the top of the tire clearly - like mine. He's running the same tires sizes as well, so it's a good comparison. I'll try the no-hops, looks like QA1s are all the Summit and the like offer, and see what happens. If all else fails I'll have to bring it back down.

Thanks everyone for the input and quick replies. I love this site!

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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 12:57 PM
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

No apologies necessary. We're all here to learn. The lower arm being parallel gets thrown around a lot and I think it must've started as a misunderstanding and just keeps getting repeated. Unless I am misunderstanding something...

I had to put no-hops on my Camino when it had cargo coils on it. I didn't get to drive it much and it was a long time ago but I recall they did help the wheel hop but they also left a couple custom dents in the floor of the bed so be aware of that.

I too went through the high stance phase in my youth. It's your car but hear me when I say that all the suspension/steering/driveability problems I was trying to work around because of the tall stance magically disappeared when I put it back to stock height. Just like the old birds told me it would...
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 19, 1:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wheel hop issues, looking to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
TA Performance (IMHO) makes the best no-hop bars you can get for the A body cars (part number 2042.)

They aren't as tall and as angled as the QA1 or Edelbrock ones and are much less likely to hit your floors, and you can still get the drain plug in and out with the TA Performance ones installed, and they have very good hardware as well.

You can find pictures of them here: http://www.taperformance.com/PDF/TAP...ce_Catalog.pdf

Look on catalog page 146 (or just search for "no hop".)
Thanks! I do like the look of the product, and the price is a little better too. I don't see a way to order directly from their site, do I have to call to order to go through another site like Summit/Jegs?

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