('65) Numbers Car??? - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old May 31st, 16, 6:51 PM Thread Starter
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Carl
 
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(65) Numbers Car???

I'm looking at a '65 that has 12B on the top of trim tag and F1214EE on eng pad. I thought there would be a couple of weeks lead time building the engine before the body would be ready for it. Is what I'm looking at possible? There are no ther #s on pad. Thx.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 16, 2:32 PM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom61 View Post
I'm looking at a '65 that has 12B on the top of trim tag and F1214EE on eng pad. I thought there would be a couple of weeks lead time building the engine before the body would be ready for it. Is what I'm looking at possible? There are no other #s on pad. Thx.
Generally, the engines weren't built specifically for a certain car...

Where was the car assembled?

I have seen Fremont cars with close numbers, which got me, because the engine had to also be shipped from New York (Tonawanda, 396), and then installed...

Also, I recall the cowl tag was the first thing made, then the body was build and assembled, so really, 12B doesn't mean the car was finished during the second week of December...

I haven't seen anything yet, but when the NCRS came out with the shipping info, I wonder how that correlates to the cowl tag date???

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 16, 3:39 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

The cowl tag date is when the body shell was welded together at Fisher Body, not when the body finally got to Chevrolet and went through final assembly. Typically it took 2 days (4 shifts) to go through the Fisher Body process and another 1-1/2 day (3 shifts) for the final assembly process.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 16, 7:48 PM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcamino View Post
The cowl tag date is when the body shell was welded together at Fisher Body, not when the body finally got to Chevrolet and went through final assembly. Typically it took 2 days (4 shifts) to go through the Fisher Body process and another 1-1/2 day (3 shifts) for the final assembly process.
For at least 64-67, based on comparing trim tag dates to the "broadcast date" on broadcast sheet (or build sheet) and various other factory paperwork on a large number of cars, the date on the tag is actually when the paperwork for the build of the car was generated in the plant. All that was done before the first weld was ever made, which yields additional lag between tag date and completion of the car.

It is also important to note that the cowl tag date does not correspond perfectly to a calendar date. For example, I have an 67 with 11E tag date, and the broadcast date on the paperwork is 12/1/66. Since no one (yet) knows exactly how they parceled up the weeks on the tag dates, the actual broadcast date for a car could be as much as 6 days after the last day you would think it could be based just on a calendar.

So your 12B car could have had a broadcast date of anywhere between 12/8 and 12/20. Then they would start actually building the car at some point after that, and as noted above the build process covered several more days.

So 12B and a 12/14 engine are tight, but certainly not impossible.

Jeff Helms
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 16, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Carl
 
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Thx, your info has me breathing a bit easier that it's a numbers matching car. It's a KC built car and I broke down the trim tag from Chevelle Stuff . The car has all that's listed on tag including cold a/c (2k) and ivory interior (792). Yeah, I bought the car to add to my corral (67 SS396). I'll have questions about correct interior resto as some trim pieces are black and seem hokey along w the ivory. I wonder if Dale has a c/d for the '65s as the one he produced for the '67 is absolutely brilliant. It's a PP car,too.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 16, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: (65) Numbers Car???

Yeah, I didn't get any response here so re-posted on Tag Team and got several hits. That's where I'll stay with this question...
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 16, 12:13 PM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

from research on the 1969 year you cannot use a calendar to try and match up the build months and weeks it just won't work. I would say your numbers are correct and that the 12B week was actually later in the month as GM would see it during production. take care, Andy

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 16, 1:58 PM Thread Starter
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Carl
 
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Good stuff, thx.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 16, 1:59 PM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

My 67 was built & shipped December 15th 1966 with a body that left the Fisher Body bank on December 13th. My engine was built December 12th. That is pretty tight. FWIW my car was built in Oshawa with an engine from St. Catherines, a train ride that is perhaps as quick as 2 hours without any stops. The load of engines may have even taken a whole day and ended up being earmarked for installation to a hungry assembly line. Tonawanda is not all that far from St. Catherines as the crow flies.

From what I have seen, the popular engine / trans combos were pretty tight with the assembly dates, while more obscure engine / trans combos tended have a greater time spread.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 2nd, 16, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Carl
 
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

I think all the input I've received on this really puts me at ease that my new ride is authentic and it all matches. To still have all intact after 51yrs is quite a feat but obviously possible. Great info...
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 3rd, 16, 9:35 AM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Just to go along with what Andy and Jeff have stated...
I have almost 3000 66/67 trim tag's data. I've tried every conceivable way to "correlate" and build week letter A...E with days of a given month and have yet to come up with anything that's even close - especially with "E" week codes. Just a couple of examples:

1966 August (for 1967 model year) - Kansas City and Fremont
1966 September (for 1967 model year) - Atlanta, Baltimore, and Fremont
1966 October (for 1967 model year) - Fremont
1966 November (for 1967 model year) - Baltimore, Kansas City, and Fremont
1967 May - Kansas City and Framingham
1967 June - Kansas City, Baltimore, and Fremont

So just for the Fremont plant, they used "E" coded trim tags for 4 straight months, Kansas City for 2 straight months.

1966 March - Fremont, Flint, and Kansas City
1966 April - Fremont and Flint

I don't compile data for other years but have noticed the same holds true for any plant, any year. The week letters still do not correlate with any calendar days when you look at two or three months from the same plant.

On a side note as soon as I finish up with my 1970 Chevelle SS In Detail book I'm going to get back to my 64/65 Reference CD I'm working on.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 3rd, 16, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Carl
 
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

Could it simply be that record keeping/ documentation wasn't perfect as we would expect it to be? The figures, stamps and dates were general in nature and we now live in the digital, information age and it's a struggle to match the 2 era's. Having been an aircraft inspector in the USAF for 28yrs, I'm used to most everything being exact but realize with mass production like was taking place 50yrs ago we're going to be scratching our heads. TC and it's members do a fantastic job interpreting info available, I must say.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 16, 5:54 PM
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Re: ('65) Numbers Car???

While this is how its managed now, it kinda of gives you a look at how production is scheduled in the plants. Not a whole lot different that in the past, just more automated today.



500, this is a dealer stock order code used to order common vehicles. Please contact your dealer to receive an actual active order number.
1100, Preliminary order accepted (This means your dealer has entered your order into their system but does not mean they have the allocation to submit the order to GM yet. Speak with your dealer to verify when they expect to be able to submit your order for production)
1102, Preliminary Order added thru web
2000, Order accepted by GM (This means the order has been submitted and accepted by production. You are now on your way.)
2030, Order re-edited (if necessary) (This is simply an edit code showing that something on your order has been changed. It does not mean your order has been accepted to production and really does not mean anything beyond your previous status other than a change has been made.)
2051, Order changed thru Web (same as above)
2500, Order preferenced (This means that the Order has been moved to the stage that parts department is now ready to place the orders for the components that will become your car)
3000, Order accepted by production control (This is the response from production to your 2500 status and is when Parts are actually ordered. No further changes can be made to your order once you reach this point.) TPW now known.
3100, Order available to sequence (This is more or less an inter-office memo from Parts to Production saying all parts are committed to this build, they are clear to sequence them for the build.)
3300, Order scheduled for production (This is the response to the 3100 status where Production is cleared to sequence and schedule the build).
3400, Order broadcast (This is when the order is actually loaded onto the production line computers and parts are being staged for the build scheduled to arrive just in time they are needed)
3800, Order produced (The vehicle is completed and has rolled off the line. A Vin is now available.)
4000, Available to ship (Vehicle is off the line and available to ship)
4104, Bailment Invoice (Shipping documents generated)
4150, Original Invoice Generated
4200, Shipped (Moved or in process of moving to another location by transport company, see 4300)
4300, Intermediate Delivery (In combination with a 4200 this is saying that the vehicle has been transported to a vendor or upfitter)
4B00, Bayed by the shipper (listed anytime a vehicle is sitting parked waiting for next mode of transportation.)
4D00, Bayed for Quality Control Inspection (Unknown Time frame)
4800, Rail Ramp Unload (unloaded from the rail car and parked waiting to be delivered to dealer)
5000, Delivered to the dealer
6000, Delivered to the customer or sale reported to GM
9000, Order Cancelled
Note Only the ordering dealer has access to complete details, all others can only see the order status codes above.
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