Restoration and VIN tags - Chevelle Tech
Tag Team De-coding cowl tags and vin numbers.

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 19th, 10, 9:29 PM Thread Starter
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Restoration and VIN tags

Please see this article about the recent legal troubles by a prominent Mustang restorer in OK. Apparently OSBI (OK) has ruled that the cars cannot be restored with repro parts and that sheet metal around the VIN cannot be replaced. Coming soon to a state near you...

http://67mustangblog.com/2010/08/cla...ned/#more-3715

Quote:
A series of legal arguments over the definition of restoration protocol ensued, with the government stating that shop owners in Oklahoma cannot replace the factory sheet metal with aftermarket parts during the restoration process without re-titling the car.
As the values of collector cars continues to climb, so will the illegal activities and the oversight from government.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 19th, 10, 9:55 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

What happened was they busted in and had to come up with something so the state didn't get sued for illegal search and seizure.Ever get pulled over and end up with a ticket for an air freshener hanging from your mirror?Same thing.I wouldn't worry about it china owns America and all those parts come from there so itll get fixed.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 19th, 10, 9:55 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

My guess is, this has something to do with replacing the shock towers and aprons on Mudstangs, because there is a VIN stamped on the apron. Chevelle owners and restorers shouldn't have anything to worry about unless you want to change a firewall with the partial VIN stamped on it.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 19th, 10, 11:20 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Birdwell View Post
Chevelle owners and restorers shouldn't have anything to worry about unless you want to change a firewall with the partial VIN stamped on it.
Unless we just do it to Arlington cars

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 12:51 AM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie1969 View Post
What happened was they busted in and had to come up with something so the state didn't get sued for illegal search and seizure.
Is that what happened? Seems more like a dispute about just how much sheet metal can be replaced on a car and the car still be considered the one the VIN belongs to. If one takes a VIN plate off one car and puts it on another, isn't that the same just 'replacing' the sheet metal? If the cowl and dash is rusted beyond the ability to fix it does that justify taking the VIN plate off one car and putting it on another?

I don't know anything about this shop but the blog says they do classis recreations and not classic restorations. If that's the case, why wouldn't they just apply for a state VIN on their recreations and avoid any conflict?

While I agree, if the blog is correct, that the officials may have applied the law (whatever it reads) too severly saying you can't replace any sheetmetal on a car without re-titling it. Somehow I don't think the law reads it that strictly as salvage yards would be out of business if they couldn't sell body panels and repair shops couldn't use salvage yard (or dealer or aftermarket) sheet metal to repair a fender or quarter panel.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 1:10 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Dave Birdwell hit the nail on the head. Mustangs and Cougars have the VIN stamped into the sheemetal, not rivited on like our cars. The issue was how much surrounding metal can you replace without affecting the VIN stamp. Oklahoma was questioning the process to see if they were replacing metal areound the VIN stamp or "replacing" the VIN stamp (a swap of VINS) Not questioning the ability to use "any" repo material just the bits around the VIN.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 1:54 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Raise your hand if you've bought cars from salvage auction, put 2 or 3 together and then ran them through salvage inspection. We all know removal of a VIN is an offense. Documentation must be presented, records kept and proof of purchase produced. Every state is different. A replacement body is considered a repalcement part. What do you think a new Ford replacement cab is for a pickup for instance? Already been there at the old shop and other shop owners have done it for their customers.

To zombie1969. I won't digress but briefly. Many products produced in China are owned by someone's American neighbor across the street. I've met them. I've met others looking for manufacturing prices from me and they have stated they will start up an overseas company instead. Much cheaper for them. Your fellow American is doing this. That's the way it is and always will be.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 2:41 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleM View Post
Is that what happened? Seems more like a dispute about just how much sheet metal can be replaced on a car and the car still be considered the one the VIN belongs to. If one takes a VIN plate off one car and puts it on another, isn't that the same just 'replacing' the sheet metal? If the cowl and dash is rusted beyond the ability to fix it does that justify taking the VIN plate off one car and putting it on another?

I don't know anything about this shop but the blog says they do classis recreations and not classic restorations. If that's the case, why wouldn't they just apply for a state VIN on their recreations and avoid any conflict?

While I agree, if the blog is correct, that the officials may have applied the law (whatever it reads) too severly saying you can't replace any sheetmetal on a car without re-titling it. Somehow I don't think the law reads it that strictly as salvage yards would be out of business if they couldn't sell body panels and repair shops couldn't use salvage yard (or dealer or aftermarket) sheet metal to repair a fender or quarter panel.
From what I read in the link provided seemed to me they were looking for stolen shop equipment not vin tampering and didn't find any stolen equipment so weren't going to just say oops our bad and leave an open door for a lawsuit so found anything they could to cover there a$$.In my area last week a teen girl claimed she was abducted and the neighborhood was torn apart looking for a guy that didn't exist because she lied and a guy was pulled from his house handcuffed and pinned against his outer wall of his house for no reason what so ever.This guy wasn't a sex offender or anything just a normal joe sitting in his house doing whatever.Without seeing the actual search warrant nobody can say for sure how it went down but its how I see it.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 2:57 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSS454 View Post
Unless we just do it to Arlington cars
Yea whats strange about Arlington cars is some have it and some do not.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 3:03 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie1969 View Post
What happened was they busted in and had to come up with something so the state didn't get sued for illegal search and seizure.Ever get pulled over and end up with a ticket for an air freshener hanging from your mirror?Same thing.I wouldn't worry about it china owns America and all those parts come from there so itll get fixed.
That's what it sounds like to me.

The state didn;t want to look stupid by acting on a false tip, so they found some trumped up BS.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 3:51 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Always looking to find fault in law enforcement...

...until, heaven forbid, you need it.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 20th, 10, 8:27 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

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Originally Posted by DaleM View Post
Always looking to find fault in law enforcement...

...until, heaven forbid, you need it.
Yup. Keep the LEO bashing contained to the CE area, please.

Atlanta cars don't have a firewall VIN either, at least not the dozen or so that I've seen....

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 10, 11:34 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleM View Post
I don't know anything about this shop but the blog says they do classis recreations and not classic restorations. If that's the case, why wouldn't they just apply for a state VIN on their recreations and avoid any conflict?
Exactly.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 10, 12:52 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

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Originally Posted by DaleM View Post
Always looking to find fault in law enforcement...

...until, heaven forbid, you need it.
At least when we need them, you know what number to dial, the nearest doughnut shop in the area, they are always there. Thats the consistant thing about the police!

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 10, 1:53 PM
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Re: Restoration and VIN tags

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Originally Posted by MalibuMike70 View Post
At least when we need them, you know what number to dial, the nearest doughnut shop in the area, they are always there. Thats the consistant thing about the police!
I hope you never need them, no matter how much distain you seem to have for law enforcement.

Maybe you better get that donut shop on speed dial, eh?
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