Matching numbers Shell??? - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 2:20 PM Thread Starter
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Matt
 
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Matching numbers Shell???

Ok I know this is a chevelle website, but this is the only website I ever use (since I only own chevelles) so I'm going to post my question here. I was looking at a nice buildable '70 challenger that was advertised as a 'Matching numbers'. Once I read all the information on the car, I realized it didn't include any type of drivetrain, just the shell. I contacted the seller to get further info since I only know matching numbers to be referring to the drivetrain matching the body. He was a total a** about the whole thing, but his final answer was that it is a 'Matching Number Shell'. Maybe MOPARs are different, but wouldn't every shell with a VIN tag be a matching numbers shell since it's the only number on it?

Hopefully one of you has some experience with MOPARs and can let me know if the seller is crazy or if I am crazy...

70 Chevelle SS
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 2:39 PM
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Tony
 
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

IMO, YOU are correct... matching Numbers means the drivetrain has numbers that match the VIN... There can only be ONE "Matching numbers" Engine, and trasmission for ANY car... Even if a dealer replaced an engine for warrantee, even before a customer took possession, that still not matching numbers...

Many take it even further ( Everything must match), but those other components don't ( usually) have the VIN, so they could be from something else...


For Mopars, its the same...

But mopars have VIN characters that note what engine ( Hemi, 440-6, 440, 383, 318, etc) came in that shell... So while it might be an original Hemi-powered car, you can tell by the VIN...

But a shell will never be "Matching Numbers"...

Of course, alot of people (Most people, probably) don't really know what many of these terms mean. They use these "buzzwords" for marketing ("Matching Numbers", "Survivor", "NOS", "one-owner", "Restored", " Correct" ,etc) without knowing/caring about the correct definition. IMO, these are all terms that sellers used to try and fool buyers... But there is really nothing you can do about it...

Which reminds me, I hate the term "Survivor"... Somewhere, someone with a financial/ecotistical interest decided it was okay for a "Survivor" to have a certain percentage of repaint, etc... I think a survivor should not be allowed to have ANY cosmetic refurbishment... JMHO...

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 2:46 PM
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Rick
 
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

I don't know about Mopars, but I have asked a similar question about a non-specific GM product. Now that I've eased back into the hobby, I consider it a relevant question because I accumulated several cars as a kid

I'd like to clear them out to a good home, but I will have some costs associated with selling them. I need to know if it's worth the expense, otherwise, they'll have to sit where they've been for 35+ years.

I have asked how much of the original car needs to be intact to consider a foundation for an authentic restoration. The responses generally started at cowl & frame to left side of the cowl & block.

That doesn't sound like the basis for a what I'd consider the original car. I don't know and I haven't found an across the board consensus. I can't see the finished product as being "restored from the original car" when so little exists. Many people agree, but some think otherwise.

Component re-stamping leaves the numbers matching question an opening for a technically accurate, but very vague answer. I would ask if it is the original drive train that matches the VIN.

I hope this doesn't incinerate the thread, a lot of us new and returning enthusiasts are really trying to learn.

Rick
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 2:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

1966_L78, I think you may be right. The tenacity of his response to my inquiry made me believe all the more that he was using that phrase to sell the car and possibly/probably rip somebody off. I'm also guessing that means I was by no means the first person to question him on it. My concern for the matching numbers is usually for different reasons than most enthusiasts. I would rather obtain a non-matching numbers builder that I can make into what I want, and leave the honest-to-goodness matching #'s cars to the enthusiasts that cater to that.

Florheel, what kind of cars are you trying to get rid of? I'm in the market for another project to start......just not a matching #'s shell......

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 5:50 PM
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1966_L78 View Post
Which reminds me, I hate the term "Survivor"... Somewhere, someone with a financial/ecotistical interest decided it was okay for a "Survivor" to have a certain percentage of repaint, etc... I think a survivor should not be allowed to have ANY cosmetic refurbishment... JMHO...
Totally agree. A 'survivor" should only have consumables replaced. But then you get into, "Well, my car was in a fender bender 40 years ago and had the fender repainted and trim replaced. Why isn't my car a survivor?" So, it's kind of a mixed bag.

Bloomington Gold registered SURVIVOR as a trademark - see http://www.survivorcollectorcar.com/. On that site there's information about just how much can be fixed/repaired/replaced and be a "SURVIVOR" in their eyes.

TC Gold #92 ~ August 1998
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 6:38 PM
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

I'm not really familiar with these, but maybe he means the VIN plate is on the original body. ConVINs will match. It is not a rebody. Also, I recall that trim tags on these cars are just held on with screws and are easily changed.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 9:57 PM
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Rick
 
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

For my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with ConVINs?

Rick
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 10:53 PM
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCamino View Post
I'm not really familiar with these, but maybe he means the VIN plate is on the original body. ConVINs will match. It is not a rebody. Also, I recall that trim tags on these cars are just held on with screws and are easily changed.
Being a Chrysler product----if there is a body---there would no re-body.
Chrysler went to 'unibody' in 1957 with the entire passenger car line.

'Bout the only way to re-body one of these is to just swap tags from a different body.

Trim tags will call out options----VIN will call out engines AND price class of the vehicle. So---someone swapping a fully loaded Charger SE tag on a base Charger with all of those options added is easily noticed as the VIN price class will not agree with the trim tag.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 10, 11:12 PM
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Re: Matching numbers Shell???

It sounds like the guy is just trying to play off the numbers matching description. A number matching shell is a bunch of BS and judging from the guys correspondence, it sounds like he knows it too. I cant imagine anyone else versed in other makes and models besides GM would fall for that either.

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