Values Of Torque Plate Honing - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Values Of Torque Plate Honing

This is a pic of a 454 block that has come in for some work as it only has about 3200 miles on it since the rebuild and it was making some lower end noises. We line honed it and squared and decked it flat and bored it and we blued up the 2 center cylinders installed the gasket and torque plate and went in for 6 strokes on each cylinder as you can see the results and look at the piston as it has blowby right to the oil controll rings as we could measure .003 distortion on the cylinders.

I am posting this as Gary from NY say there is no differance using a plate with what I have seen so far over the years I am a believer. I have done blocks this way and gone trade shows and guys are amazed at what a torque plate does to a cylinder and on the after market blocks the distortion is minimal compared to the OEM stuff.






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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 1:02 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Nice pics Carl pretty "self explanatory" ,,

I don't think any comments can expand on the pics but what the hell

Here is the threads you are referring too:
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92975
And: http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1227305/an/0/page/0#1227305

And, you showed a block that is normally considered pretty ridged compared to some,,,
That particular block isn't even on the list of ones recommended for torque plate usage so think of the ones that are,,,,,
I just did a 428 Ford FE & you want to see something move,, it was so bad the stones were chattering for about ten strokes

Here is what AERA has to say about the subject & this is from 1988,,
Torque Plate Use Recommendations

"While all engines would benefit, to realize an increase in performance and a decrease in oil consumption, the following list of engines should be finish honed with a torque plate to simulate the stress of the cylinder head when the engine is assembled.

Manufacturer Displ. (L) (CID) Comments

GM 2.0L 121

2.5L 151

4.1L 252 V8 Aluminum Cadillac

4.9L 301

5.0L 305 Late model Chevrolet

5.7L 350 Oldsmobile

6.6L 400 Small block Chevrolet

6.6L 403 Oldsmobile

Ford 1.6L 98 Escort

1.9L 116 Escort

2.3L 140 OHC engine

5.0L 302 Late model engines

5.9L 360 *

6.4L 390 *

* While these are not thin wall blocks, durability and oil consumption is improved when a torque plate is used during remanufacture. It is not required to use a torque plate to prevent piston scuffing as we have noted to be necessary with the GM 2.0 and 2.5L engines.

The AERA Technical Committee"


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 1:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Mike

Nice post AGAIN

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 2:08 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Could you go into a little more detail of what exactly we are seeing?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 4:20 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Can I ask a stupid question? Keep in mind that I have never built an engine, but I have destroyed one . If it's a good idea to use a torque plate when boring the cylinder then do you guys (meaning engine builders) keep the torque plate installed when fitting the rings?

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 4:25 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Sheesh, maybe GM didn't torque plate my 01 GMC 8.1L. That pos burns oil and rattles like a diesel.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 4:53 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

In the original Chevy Power books, Chevrolet recommended installing a stack of washers and a bolt (torqued) in each head bolt hole if a torque plate wasn't available.

Ever tried that? Seems like it would be better than nothing, if you were doing an oddball engine that you didn't have a 'plate for.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 5:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey
In the original Chevy Power books, Chevrolet recommended installing a stack of washers and a bolt (torqued) in each head bolt hole if a torque plate wasn't available.

Ever tried that? Seems like it would be better than nothing, if you were doing an oddball engine that you didn't have a 'plate for.
I don't think you would get the full affect of the gasket ETC.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 5:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rednecks70
Can I ask a stupid question? Keep in mind that I have never built an engine, but I have destroyed one . If it's a good idea to use a torque plate when boring the cylinder then do you guys (meaning engine builders) keep the torque plate installed when fitting the rings?

We keave .006 to .008 to hone out and we have a junk block with different size cylinders for fitting the riings as it was done without a plate.

Good question

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 5:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 Ratt Vette
Could you go into a little more detail of what exactly we are seeing?
Look under each bolt hole and you can see where the cylinder was destorted and actually measuring wih the bore gauge in the dark areas is th biggist part of the cylinders and they are .003 distorted and try to get rings to seal in that enviorment and with cylinders that far out of round you end up with premature ring land wear as well.

And look at the piston as you can see that the blowby and carbon went all the way down to the oil control rings

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 5:28 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Shouldn't we be seeing some vertical marks in the cylinders or did the hone take them out. I know it only had 3200 miles on it but it seems like that would be enough to see some marks.

Excellent representation, THANKYOU. What was causing the lower end noises??
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 6:27 PM
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Smile Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

As a machinist and engine guy I can appriciate what you have demonstrated.......thats pretty bad to say the least..........somebody was asking about vertical marks.......they were removed by the hone if there were any.......somebody also mentioned honing w/plates and gaping the rings.....speaking for myself after honing with plates then gapping to specs I've never had a problem......most guys that build their own stuff ( that dont do it professionally) dont have plates to work with.....if it makes you nervous gap to the high side.............what say you pros'?
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 6:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspan1830
Shouldn't we be seeing some vertical marks in the cylinders or did the hone take them out. I know it only had 3200 miles on it but it seems like that would be enough to see some marks.

Excellent representation, THANKYOU. What was causing the lower end noises??
We went from .030 over to .060 as we put it in the CNC machine and squared and decked it and rough bored it to 4.302 and it will be finished to 4.310 and for the noise in the lower end who ever assembled it wasn't very clean and the main line was 2.940 which was .002 over size as we also line honed it to 2.938 and we will resize the rods and check them for bend and twist as we will probably have to hone the pin bores out as well as we always find them to be on the tight side and balance the rotator. The crank had to be ground .020-.020. So when the customer puts it back together it should be a pretty good peice when it is done.

Thanks for your positive comment.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 05, 10:17 PM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

OK, thought I would throw in a picture too. This Gen VI 454 was plate honed .005 over and fitted with JE +.005 pistons. It was then run 80 hrs in a boat with a BM 250 blower with 5 pounds boost. Today he had me hone it and did not want to use the plates. You can plainly see on the bore near the center head bolt holes where the hone did not touch the bore. This is another pretty visual example that bores do distort when torqued.


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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 05, 12:15 AM
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Re: Values Of Torque Plate Honing

Sweet! I like pictures!

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