Making some head way on the '66 - Page 9 - Chevelle Tech
Projects & Builds For those with projects for up to date threads.

 70Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #121 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 17, 1:25 AM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 16,052
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Wish I could help Rod but running against a deadline to get mine back on the road. It is 110 here, Missouri would be a nice change.

Team Chevelle Gold Founding Member #42

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
L29 454, 4L80E, 12 bolt posi 3.31, GM 4 wheel disc brakes
63 Nova wagon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philip is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 17, 6:42 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Far Northern Kommiefornia
Posts: 7,833
Send a message via Yahoo to davewho1
Re: Making some head way on the '66

From my observations, Hookers USED to be the best affordable headers for the regular guy; and they did VERY well in professional racing in several different disciplines, as I recall.

At some point, they were taken over by somebody - the Mr. Gasket conglomerate, possibly? Their quality quickly dropped off a cliff, unfortunately.

It's not rocket science to reproduce a header that will hug the underbody of a car built 50 years ago that Hooker had the blueprints for, um - 50 years ago.

I think Hedman Hedders still does it right.

My 22.5 cents.

David

1966 Fremont 11A, SS396/L35 coupe - 1 of 66,843
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


MM/763; A01; A39; A51; D55; M35; N40; U14; U63


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
davewho1 is offline  
post #123 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 17, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Quote:
Originally Posted by davewho1 View Post
From my observations, Hookers USED to be the best affordable headers for the regular guy; and they did VERY well in professional racing in several different disciplines, as I recall.

At some point, they were taken over by somebody - the Mr. Gasket conglomerate, possibly? Their quality quickly dropped off a cliff, unfortunately.

It's not rocket science to reproduce a header that will hug the underbody of a car built 50 years ago that Hooker had the blueprints for, um - 50 years ago.

I think Hedman Hedders still does it right.

My 22.5 cents.
Dave, I have to agree, I was more than a little disappointed with the way the headers finished. I can see absolutely no reason to not have the collector run parallel to the floor pan. And like you said, 50 years... come on...

Other than that though, the fit really well, nice heavy flanges, and sealed nicely. One other thing, my headers were advertised as polished stainless but what I got was far from polished and had a lot of tool marks from bending. I didn't really care as much because I had planned from the get go that I was going to scuff them down with a scotch brite pad to get a matte finish but I would have been pissed to pay that much and expecting to have a beautiful set of polished headers, lol.
davewho1 likes this.

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
 
post #124 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 17, 7:40 PM
Moderator
Clint
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Wichita Falls,Tx
Posts: 5,750
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Quote:
Originally Posted by davewho1 View Post
From my observations, Hookers USED to be the best affordable headers for the regular guy; and they did VERY well in professional racing in several different disciplines, as I recall.

At some point, they were taken over by somebody - the Mr. Gasket conglomerate, possibly? Their quality quickly dropped off a cliff, unfortunately.

It's not rocket science to reproduce a header that will hug the underbody of a car built 50 years ago that Hooker had the blueprints for, um - 50 years ago.

I think Hedman Hedders still does it right.

My 22.5 cents.
I couldn't agree more,Dave.
davewho1 likes this.

Clint Hooper

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
Clint44 is offline  
post #125 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 17, 1:47 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Elroy
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 976
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

I hear you Dave as well ! My small block Hookers on the Camino are 3" too low on the drivers side too. No reason for that !
davewho1 likes this.

66 SS396 resto pics

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
66138 is offline  
post #126 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 13th, 17, 2:53 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Ok guys, you're going to love this one, lol... I got the steering thing all ironed out and all is good there, so, going to take her on another shake down cruise to see how she goes... so, the first thing I notice is that it seems like the transmission is slipping. I have a 3200 stall but it still just didn't feel right so I back her up and put her back in the shop. Check the trans fluid, all is good, go to the display for the TCI EZ-TCU and I have 3 errors, a TPS error, trans over heat error, and trans sensor shorted or open. So, evidently due to the errors the trans went into limp mode and was trying to take off in 2nd or 3rd gear.

The odd thing, one of the odd things, is that I can't clear the error codes with the hand held like it's supposed to do. I have no clue why that is. So I start down a check list of things to check, grounds, loose connections, plug on the trans inserted properly.... all good. So I remember reading about electrical noise potentially being a problem, so I decided to move the TCU from under the dash, near the ECU, to under the console.

So I start dissecting all of the wiring and begin rerouting everything. However, before I started I disconnected the battery, both the positive and the negative sides. My theory was that I would then add one thing at a time, only adding those things necessary to power the ECU and TCU and see if I could resolve the issue. But one time while doing this I forgot to reattach the negative ground cable to the lug that ultimately grounds the battery to the chassis. I went ahead and checked the TCU, turned on the key and had only 1 error, the trans was over temp, but I was able to clear it with the hand held now. Then I noticed that the ground cable was off so, thinking I was about to solve this issue I shut everything off and connected the ground cable and went back to see the results. Again, turned on the key and had all 3 previous error messages again and was unable to clear them with the hand held.

So, I finished wiring everything else back up and connected the ground, checked again, same thing, 3 error messages and unable to clear them with the hand held. So, I thought that I disconnect the ground cable again just to see what would happen. I did, turned the key on again and lo and behold, no error messages and for the first time it appeared that the TCU display was actually displaying the correct trans temp, 86*, TPS read 0, as it should, and the volts for the battery was correct.

I have a crap ton of grounds but what I don't understand is how I'm getting any power to anything when I take the primary ground cable off the battery and there is no ground connected to anything. I realize that I have my ECU and TCU, as well as my A/C and other things that required me to run both their positive and negatives directly to the battery and there are some additional grounds off of those harnesses that are grounded to the engine and or body, but, without the battery directly connected to a ground source I'm at a loss as to how anything gets power. More so, I'm at a loss as to why the TCU functions properly with this ground cable disconnected, yet, when hooked up properly it flashes errors which you can't clear with the handheld.

Starting to pull my hair out here as I've never seen anything like this before. Any clue as to why this could be happening? Of course I called FAST today but I imagine because of the Power Tour they are short staffed as I haven't heard back from them yet. Any and all suggestions would be welcomed and appreciated!

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
post #127 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 17, 1:39 AM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 16,052
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

You say the ECU, TCU and AC are grounded directly to the battery. Is that to the main cable or another terminal? I have dual terminal battery and use the top posts for the cables and the side posts for some relays and to ground the core support. As long as there is any wire attached to the negative battery terminal the system will have a path for power to flow. Smaller wires will not carry large current draws but will power up the ECU and TCU with no problem.
Try removing the TCU ground from the battery and attach it to the body. Might be getting some sort of feedback from another component.



I have the battery ground cable going to the drivers side head ( battery is on the drivers side), a large flat ground strap from the front of the passenger side head to the frame and a smaller flat strap from the back of the passenger side head to the firewall. Also have a 12 gauge wire from the battery to the core support. My PCM is grounded to the rear of the passenger side head and nearly everything else is just grounded to the body. Close to the way the factory did it except I used larger straps and wire.

Team Chevelle Gold Founding Member #42

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
L29 454, 4L80E, 12 bolt posi 3.31, GM 4 wheel disc brakes
63 Nova wagon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philip is offline  
post #128 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 17, 1:05 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Philip, here is a quick drawing of what I got going on, but I have dual batteries behind the back seats with a battery isolator separating and handling the charging between the 2. The instructions for bot the ECU and TCU, as well as a few other components, all say to take the positive and negative leads for that component and connect directly to the battery, so I did.

Currently I am using the red battery of audio equipment, I'm thinking about moving my Vintage Air over to it as well though, As of now, on the primary battery of the the following hooked up to it: ECU, TCU, Ignition Box (red power only), and the Vintage Air on the side post. On the top post I have the battery isolator, and the relays for my fuel pumps and dual fans.

I thought about moving the Vintage Air and the relays over to the 2nd battery and only have my TCU, ECU, and ignition box on the primary one.

The I have a common ground lug back there that I have '0' size cable from both batteries going to, then a body ground off the top of the lug, a chassis ground off the bottom of the lug, and then a '0' size ground going to the engine and connecting on the back side of the head. And then the other grounds as well...

They claim that I am getting interference through the ground feed for the TCU, however, if you HAVE to connect all of these components directly to the battery what's a guy supposed to do? I've got a call in but still waiting on a return call from support...

[IMG][/IMG]

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
post #129 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 17, 2:04 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 16,052
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

I would try removing the ground for the TCU from the main battery and attach to the body or the other battery. If there is interference from some other component that may be enough separation to filter it out.

Team Chevelle Gold Founding Member #42

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
L29 454, 4L80E, 12 bolt posi 3.31, GM 4 wheel disc brakes
63 Nova wagon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philip is offline  
post #130 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 14th, 17, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

That's pretty much what I did and thought that I had it licked, that is until I smoked the handheld display... oh well... I'm not really sure what did happen to be quite honest, but the display won't come on now but the TCU will... But that's getting ahead of the story, lets back up a bit...

So, I finally hear back from TCI and I'm telling him what I have and what it's doing and I'm getting the intermittant 'uh huh.... hmmm.... uh huh...', so, I say "I thought about move the TCU over to the second battery by itself and see what happens. And it was like he woke up, "great idea, that's what I'd do"... Ok... "Thanks for the help, I'll let you know... bye now..."

So I head out to the shop to start moving stuff around, again, and I'm a straight up summer type of guy, wearing my short pants and my slides. So I'm starting to crawl into the back seat and I had taken my slides off, it just what I do, and I'll be damn, I kicked the seat latch on the bottom of the front seat and split my little toe wide open, blood everywhere... Now, that just sets the stage for the rest of the afternoon... I get the bleeding under control and get a bandage on her and head back in...

So, I move the positive and negative leads for the TCU over to the second battery and remove the negative battery cable from the common ground lug. I then take that same negative cable and attach it to a body ground by itself. On the primary battery I have just the positive and negative leads for the ECU and the positive lead for the ignition box. I left the leads for the Vintage Air, the relays, and the battery isolator off.

So, I turn the key 'on' and look at the TCU, soild blue light, which is a good sign, grab the handheld display and page down to the error screen and lo and behold, NO ERRORS! So I'm just about ready to scream with joy and then the screen goes blank and "COMM ERROR" comes up on the screen and then goes blank...COMM ERROR? Didn't have that error message before, didn't change any other connections anywhere else... So why the COMM ERROR?

So, I thought that I'd try running a lead from my new body ground for the second battery to the common ground lug to see if that would correct the problem. According to TCI the battery acts as a filter for electronic noise so I figured that since the TCU was now on it's own separate battery I'd see if the common chassis ground would resolve the COMM ERROR. So I do, I add a cable from the body ground over to the lug and turn the key... The handheld display will not come on... The TCU powers up, the blue light is on on the TCU, blinking but on, but the display will not do anything. I check all of the connections, everything looks fine but no display....

That's where the day ends... once again disappointed and confused, lol... there's always tomorrow though... stay tuned for part 49...

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
post #131 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 15th, 17, 12:27 AM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 16,052
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Have TCI send you a new one, is it under warranty? The tech said to move it to the other battery and that smoked it. In any case it is still not making sense. The handheld shouldn't incur damage with the wires hooked up properly, maybe it has an internal problem from the factory when it was assembled. If so chasing down the issue you have would have been impossible.

Jeez sorry to hear about your toe. The little one is especially vulnerable, it is trying to keep up with the others and never watching where it is going. I ran into the couch with mine a few years back. When I turned on the light to see how bad it was the little guy was pointing 90 from straight ahead and was throbbing really bad. Mary wanted to just tape to the other toes but I insisted on going to urgent care where they could give me the best medical care possible....and they taped it to the other toes. I wear shorts and sleeveless t shirts in the shop but always have on shoes.

One other thing and I was not going to bring this up, but you wrote "here is a quick drawing of what I got going on" and then I scrolled down to see the drawing I was blown away. My quick drawings are on what ever material is handy with whatever will make a mark on it. That is better than the drawings that came with some of my parts.

Team Chevelle Gold Founding Member #42

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
L29 454, 4L80E, 12 bolt posi 3.31, GM 4 wheel disc brakes
63 Nova wagon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philip is offline  
post #132 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 15th, 17, 3:45 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

As far as warranty goes, I guess I'll find out. It's one of those deals that I bought it last fall and it at on the shelf for months before I had a change to actually use it. We'll see if they stand behind it or not. If they don't I'm not sure what I'll do, I couldn't find anywhere that sells just the hand held display...

If you like that drawing then you should like this little drawing as well, lol. This is the drawing that I did and sent to FAST for them to approve before I wired my systems. What you aren't able to see is that if you were to enlarge it you'd find that all of the wires are properly color coded to match their systems. Since I had about $4,500 of their products on the line I wanted them to sign off on the proposed wiring, since they don't speak to it in their installation instructions are wiring diagrams.

[IMG][/IMG]

I'm in the process of documenting all of my wiring in a similar manner, all properly color coded as well. Lord knows that 6 months from now if I do have an issue I won't be able to remember what I did for the life of me, lol. I fancy myself a graphics guy, having owned and operated a part time graphics business in the past, so I enjoy little projects like this. I do this in Inkscape, which is the same software that I design my wooden gear clocks in so I'm really familiar with using it and it doesn't take me that long to do.

A few years back I did the same 'couch/little toe' thing, I was afraid to look and like you, it was 90* out, lol. I was still working at the time so I saw it as an opportunity to take a few days off, lol.

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
post #133 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 15th, 17, 9:34 AM
Moderator
Clint
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Wichita Falls,Tx
Posts: 5,750
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Wow!
66 Bu likes this.

Clint Hooper

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
Clint44 is offline  
post #134 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 15th, 17, 12:23 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 16,052
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

Yeah Clint, Wow is really an understatement. Rod you do nice work with everything you touch. Wooden clocks? My dad was into building brass geared clocks wish I would have learned more from him before he passed away. Have inherited some of his that now need repaired.

You know FAST is going to want to use that drawing and they need to compensate you if they do. I have been documenting circuits used in the AAW harness for other than the intended usage so that the proper fuse sizing is used. If I lose any of the instruction sheets that info will be gone....but my intention is that everything will work first time and forever Since the wagon has a factory fuel injection set up and all that was tested after the PCM upgrade it should be good to go.

Have you driven the car to check the operation of the TCU since the wiring change?

Team Chevelle Gold Founding Member #42

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
L29 454, 4L80E, 12 bolt posi 3.31, GM 4 wheel disc brakes
63 Nova wagon

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Philip is offline  
post #135 of 142 (permalink) Old Jun 16th, 17, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Rod
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: California, MO
Posts: 625
Garage
Re: Making some head way on the '66

haven't driven it since I started getting the errors, I'm afraid I could burn up my new transmission as it seems to be taking off in limp mode. I'm just not comfortable accepting that. I have to assume that it is noise interference related as it seems that I have picked up a miss in the engine as well. Last night I disconnected the CAN connection between the ecu and tcu and it acted like it tried to clear the miss, somewhat...

My biggest beef is, what's a guy to do? You can't physically isolate every wire in your car, or have 17 batteries to act as a filter for electrical noise. You have 'x' amount of space to channel these wires through. And lastly, if you have known issues, such as this, why not be more specific in your installation procedures to assist in a successful installation instead of vague statements such as 'try to avoid electrical noise from other components, such as ignition box'? No help...

Clint and Philip, you guys are too nice, lol. I enjoy the documentation side of this build. Besides the drawings I've created I also have a few 3 ring binders that I have kept every invoice and instruction/installtion related piece of paper for this build as a reference center. As you can probably tell I have A LOT of interests and it's the only way for me to keep this stuff straight, lol. Only problem is, not enough hours in the day, lol...

Philip, are your brass gear clocks spring driven or weight driven? Mantel clocks or wall clocks? Send my a PM with the problems you're having and info related to your clocks, I may be able to walk you through a fix. One of the easiest for a wall hung clock is to make sure that it is level and plumb to the wall, you have no idea of how many cuckoo cuckoo clocks I've fixed because people can't hang it on the wall straight, lol.

1966 Malibu, 540 BBC FAST XFI EFI, 4L80E Trans, 2800 Stall, Quick Performance 59" 9" Ford Rear End w/3.50 gear
66 Bu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This Thread is more than 770 days old. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
If you still feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome