Big Block vs LS - Page 8 - Chevelle Tech
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post #106 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:00 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by 1970ss8.1L View Post
Sounds a lot like my 8.1. 503 cube BBC with the Gm LS computer to control everything. I love the dependable LS and am so glad they made it in a big block version. But we need to always remember that before the LS the BBC and SBC were the daily drivers of there time and were just as dependable.

You are absolutely correct. Of their time they were dependable and of their time they were fast. I think our point is trying to make them run 9's and 8's and them staying dependable isn't going to happen. Unless you rob a bank.

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post #107 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:05 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

1. Is there anyone on this forum thats ever been contacted by me to build a engine for them?
2. Is there anyone on this forum other than sinister that thinks installing heli coils on the blocks deck in my mill
would cause a head gasket failure which would torch the center out of the head?
3. Is it possible the timing was set incorrectly causing the torching of the center of the head?
4. It is possible sinister can break an anvil in a sand box.
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post #108 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:05 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

FWIW-If it was possible to build a big block that runs 8's, gets decent fuel mileage and still be dependable to drive across country without spending a fortune. The key being without spending a fortune. I would do it. Steve would do it. Most LS guys would do it. The LS platform gives us a "cheap" alternative to have all of the above. Something I personally could never afford if it wasn't for these guys who first tried to boost the LS platforms. I think everyone called BS on them and shot them down. Now to all of their hard work, and headache. Regular guys like Steve and I can coat tail off of them and have what we have always wanted. I'm lucky if we make $30k a year and I have a family of 7. 5 still live at home. I could never afford it. My wife literally almost divorced me over the whole big block stuff. Not just with Mark's engine but all of them. When they blow they are just so dang expensive to build again. Not the case with the LS. or Gen III engines. That's attractive to us poor folks who still want a nice ride. Surely people can appreciate that.

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post #109 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:14 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by VORTECPRO View Post
1. Is there anyone on this forum thats ever been contacted by me to build a engine for them?
2. Is there anyone on this forum other than sinister that thinks installing heli coils on the blocks deck in my mill
would cause a head gasket failure which would torch the center out of the head?
3. Is it possible the timing was set incorrectly causing the torching of the center of the head?
4. It is possible sinister can break an anvil in a sand box.
Mark, Seriously? I never said Heli Coils caused the head gaskets to blow. Did it make sense to not spend a couple hundred dollars on another block when I begged you too (thinking my bill was $4k) instead of charging me near that to heli coil my block? C'mom man.

I did exactly what you said on the timing. Off the top of my head you had it set at 34 or 36 degrees of timing. You told us to try different timing to see what it likes. We did. We never went higher than 38 which is what you told us to go to if it liked it.

Not to get off topic. But instead of arguing let's be productive. At the very least you should be somewhat grateful. You got $8k of my money and when it blew I did not ask a penny from you. I didn't even gripe about it until you started to post on here that it blew because of me. A normal man would then defend himself.

Let me ask you this. Answer this truthfully now. I don't want to have to look up old members and have them post on here.

Have you ever built an engine for a customer that blew or didn't perform what you promised? How many? Would you agree that you built Bob West's engine both times and the second time it never performed much better than the first even though he spent a small fortune? Who's fault was that? Yours or Bob's? Keep in mind before you blame it on Bob West. You will lose credibility because Bob still has tons of people who respect him on here. Lastly where is the pictures of this "turbo stuff" that would rape my car? Is this your car? Your engine?

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post #110 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:27 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

i dont know either of you except here. i just want to say the absolute best engine builder there is had to deal with comebacks due to mistakes he made like any other business .however, any engine builder can talk all day long about how customers screwed engines up due to improper assy or tuning lack of knowledge whatever. when the engine leaves the shop youre at the owners mercy as to whether he did his job right. tough business
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post #111 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:51 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Mark, Seriously? I never said Heli Coils caused the head gaskets to blow. Did it make sense to not spend a couple hundred dollars on another block when I begged you too (thinking my bill was $4k) instead of charging me near that to heli coil my block? C'mom man.

I did exactly what you said on the timing. Off the top of my head you had it set at 34 or 36 degrees of timing. You told us to try different timing to see what it likes. We did. We never went higher than 38 which is what you told us to go to if it liked it.

Not to get off topic. But instead of arguing let's be productive. At the very least you should be somewhat grateful. You got $8k of my money and when it blew I did not ask a penny from you. I didn't even gripe about it until you started to post on here that it blew because of me. A normal man would then defend himself.

Let me ask you this. Answer this truthfully now. I don't want to have to look up old members and have them post on here.

Have you ever built an engine for a customer that blew or didn't perform what you promised? How many? Would you agree that you built Bob West's engine both times and the second time it never performed much better than the first even though he spent a small fortune? Who's fault was that? Yours or Bob's? Keep in mind before you blame it on Bob West. You will lose credibility because Bob still has tons of people who respect him on here. Lastly where is the pictures of this "turbo stuff" that would rape my car? Is this your car? Your engine?
1. You never spent 8000.00 in my shop, you didn't spend 7000.00 in my shop, your bill was in the 6000.00 range.

2. "even though he spent a small fortune? Who's fault was that?''


I freshened Bobs engine for free, again your wrong. Bob bought valve springs and intake valves and gaskets and a intake. Before I freshened the engine it was tested, 680 HP, I freshened the engine it made 720 HP, before the freshen low 10s @ 3650, after the freshen high 9s @ 3650.

3. The turbo stuff I've worked on are race cars, but I do remember a 4850 pound 4 wheel drive truck that ran within a a half a second of car.

4. I can only build the engine for a customer, I can't set the car up and run it myself, the reality is your engine made more HP than Garretts Albrights, Johns Wilson, and Bob Wests, Mark Mino, and the list can go on......how come every one of these cars listed was considerably faster than your car.......can you answer this? Infact my peanut port almost ran with the sinister. Finally, how many engines have run in that thing? just stick to the power adders, that the only way your going to get it done, and high 8s with a turbo isn't getting done in my book.

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post #112 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 10:56 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Hey 66 BU I just noticed you are only 4 hours away from me. I am giving you a personal invite. Come down here. Bring your car this summer. We will go for a nice long ride in my car. I will even let you drive it around. Then we can take them up to the dragstrip and run them. Not against each other just run them and have some fun. I know the owners. I will see if you can ride with me for a pass. Not sure. I have full 5 point harness in passenger seat also. Then you can post on here if any of what I say is a bunch of BS. I think you will be more impressed then you think. If not I will post that I stand corrected. I will invite a bunch of my buddies both big blocks and LS's and well have a barbecue. Bring the wife and kids if you have any. They can hang out with us. I have 7 kids, 5 of who still live at home. My kids go with me to the track. Not all 5 always want to go. lol

I'll have a couple cars I tune come up. They run in the 5.20-5.90 range but they are on a mustang platform so much lighter and better suspension. lol A little easier to make fast.
Dude, I'm all in! Sounds like a blast, and I don't have a job so I'm really flexible when it comes to when and where! I noticed earlier that you were from Missouri as well and I had to see where because there are no drag strip anywhere close to me here in the middle of Missouri. I think KC is probably the closest that I know of that is still open, maybe Wentzville if it still exists, lol. I use to get down to your neck of the woods quite often when I did work, so I'm kind of familiar with the area. We were talking about taking a road trip to Memphis this summer anyway so you're on the way! No wife but I do have a daughter who is usually my partner in crime. I love kids but I'm not sure that I could have raised 7 of them, lol, good on you! I could barely afford to raise the one, I can't imagine raising 7!

But honestly, I respect what you're doing with your LS, going 8's never entered my mind, that's seriously fast. My earlier post was meant to show that there is, or can be, a happy median in the conversation. A mix of the old with nod to the new and hopefully a more pleasurable overall experience. Like you, I figured that my '66 could do mid to low 10's but she might have to go on diet first, lol. The primary concerns when designing this build was amenities and creature comforts, lol. I think she might be a bit of a pig, weight wise, when it's all said and done. I'm building her to put miles on her, which is why I added the multiport EFI, that and I wanted something that my daughter could drive as well.

While I do have more in my engine build than you do, it's not what a lot of people have in theirs. My EFI and ignition system cost over half of what I have in the engine. We can discuss all of those finer points over some BBQ and you can educate me on turbo charging a LS engine. But seriously, I was shocked to see you go that fast with a small tire car, impressive. I'm considering a '69 for my next build, I really like the lines... maybe it will be a LS car, lol...

Lets keep in touch, and I'm serious about coming down and checking out what you got going on, and eating some BBQ... And it would be cool to go to the track and have some fun too, sounds like a good time! I'll be your witness... Can I get an amen? lol...

Rod

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post #113 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 11:00 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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................


"Say what you want but if the moderators can go back thru files I welcome them to be honest and pull up pm's and see who contacted who."


I would only hope the moderators will look into this.
For the record; There is no way that we mods can see other members' private messages.

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post #114 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 11:03 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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For the record; There is no way that we mods can see other members' private messages.


Thats OK.......


Page 7 of this thread post 101

Sinister: That's a flat lie Mark. You contacted me. Just like you contact everyone on here. Just like how you pm everyone on here to make your case for them to post on here










Sinister: "I took everyone's advice and took a step back for a couple of days. I am re- motivated as you can imagine I spoke with Mark Jones on the phone and I am sending him my engine."

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post #115 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 11:22 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by VORTECPRO View Post
Thats OK.......


Page 7 of this thread post 101

Sinister: That's a flat lie Mark. You contacted me. Just like you contact everyone on here. Just like how you pm everyone on here to make your case for them to post on here






Sinister: "I took everyone's advice and took a step back for a couple of days. I am re- motivated as you can imagine I spoke with Mark Jones on the phone and I am sending him my engine."

Man you crack me up. Yes I spoke with you on the phone. Several times. Your posting things that are out of order. Your post doesn't even say I called you. Maybe you called me that day. To be honest I called you several times after you contacted me and you called me several times.


Again a lie about Bob's engine. He had run a high 9. He sent you his engine and you rebuilt and it didn't perform. You blamed everything on him. Remember you told him to put it in your car and see what it runs?

Are you taking credit for Jarrett's (Stock48) 4x4 that ran high 9's? Was that your engine? Jarrett is in the 7's in a LS Turbo. As far as I know he is the only one. So I am a handful that are in the 8's in a daily driver. Sorry that doesn't impress you. I still want to see a picture of any "turbo stuff" you have done. Or is that another one of your exaggerations?

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post #116 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 17, 11:28 PM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

I have kids so I am off to bed. I'll check back in the morning to see these "turbo stuff" cars, trucks that you have done that will "rape my car." Can't wait to see the pictures and all the info like who owns the car so we can confirm you aren't full of BS which we all know you are. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since your not impressed with my factory looking chevelle with all stock interior, stock junk yard engine, chinese turbo's and tuned by me seeing how I don't know anything. Pretty sad when someone with my lack of knowledge as you say can get a car to do all the things I wanted but you couldn't even though it's what you do for a profession.

BTW-How's Arlo?

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post #117 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 17, 12:06 AM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
I have kids so I am off to bed. I'll check back in the morning to see these "turbo stuff" cars, trucks that you have done that will "rape my car." Can't wait to see the pictures and all the info like who owns the car so we can confirm you aren't full of BS which we all know you are. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since your not impressed with my factory looking chevelle with all stock interior, stock junk yard engine, chinese turbo's and tuned by me seeing how I don't know anything. Pretty sad when someone with my lack of knowledge as you say can get a car to do all the things I wanted but you couldn't even though it's what you do for a profession.

BTW-How's Arlo?

After you contacted me about rebuilding your engine, I agreed to do the job, the engine sat in my shop, after the discussion we had while your time bomb set in my shop, stupid me decides to do some research on the forum concerning the Sinister, What I found shocked me, after all the engine sat in my shop, do I send it back and suffer the abuse, or do I just do the job knowing what I know after reading the Sinisters previous posts about his 4 previous engine disasters, well I learned a hard lesson.............




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I can't believe this is happening...
Gosh darn, do I have the absolute worst luck in the world. Here it goes. Got the car running for about 10 seconds and it started sputtering. Builder came over and checked timing several times, wires, etc.. We finally pull a valve cover and one one side a rocker had come off and on the other the rocker stud had broken completely off where the poly lock had tightened. So...we pull all the rockers and I have at leas one bent pushrod. I know this builder did everything right with piston to valve clearance etc..

I think the rocker stud in my Brodix RR Ovals are longer than a standard rocker stud because the poly lock isn' t going on very far. Maybe a quarter inch. The push rod is a chrommoly and it is .080 thickness and was the one I had used on my solid flat tappet.

Questions:
1. Do I need a special push rod thickness since I am now running a solid roller and 13:1 compression?
2. I want to use ARP Rocker studs but the standard length is too short. Is there a taller rocker stud? Which one do I need. I think the rocker stud broke because on the last motor the rockers damn near melted on the two studs that were issues this time. I think it weakend.
3. What pushrod, brand for this motor. I have way too much money into this thing and haven not put any cheap parts into it.
4. Why is this crap happening to me?

Thanks for the help. I hope Mike Lewis chimes in.




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Compression test results....did I blow it?
This is really starting to get old. I am so friggin mad right now I am trying to remain calm. For those who have followed my car this is the third friggin rebuild on this engine.

Does this mean I have blown a cylinder or can it still be something else?

Cylinders #1,2,7 are all at 223 psi Everything else is around 175 psi. WTF?

If it is blown I am done fuc>>>> with this thing!





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13mph drop in 1/8t....any ideas?
I am really starting to think I have the absolute worst luck of anyone on this site.

I had all kinds of issues Friday with fuel, carb, et...I changed to my old carb and a new race pump for fuel. That morning everything was running awesome on the "street" no miss or anything. I get to the track thinking my 6.50's were going to be back and the car is almost 200 degrees when I arrive. Usually it is 180 at most. Because of lack of time I run two back to back passes a 6.976 and a 6.979. Consistent but almost a half second slower than when I first got it running. Now here is what is interesting. I looked back at my notes and noticed that the car has gradually gotten slower and the 60ft has gradually gotten slower. It went from a 6.52 to 6.75 to 6.80, 6.85, 6.95 in consecutive weeks.

Back to Saturday night. I couldn't get the car to cool down. The fuel had to be boiling. Car was running around 210 on the next pass and it went 7.10. I ran the fans for a while and got it to 200 and the next pass it runs 7.25 no miss. Everything seemed like it was running nomal but the time was just not there and it was as if the car was 80 percent. I loaded everything up and headed home. Now things get interesting.

As I am turning on to my main road the car lunges a little. Like the trans is pushing the car or something. I shift through the gears to get it home. Car is running around 200 degrees and about a 1/4 mile from my house I start to hear a rattle like a rocker came loose or something. I pull it in my garage and it dies. The car is way too hot to check and it is really late at this point.

Next morning I pull my valve covers and everything looks normal. So I take off the coil wire and turn the motor and the valve train "looks" like everything is working okay and I have oil pressure building up. So I go ahead and start it with the valve covers off. The car starts but runs average at best, but I do have my normal oil pressure and the wierd thing is there is no noise, no clatter or anything.

Any ideas? I think I may have two issues. The first I think the race pump is causing vapor lock and my fuel is boiling but why then would it run like crap the next morning when it is cold.

I think the second thing going on is that maybe my convertor is going bad. I would think this would explain why the car has been getting slower over the past couple months. However, this wouldn't cause the temperture on the motor to get hot though would it?

I checked the oil. Oil looks good. Checked the trans fluid it is still pink not burnt.

Thursday I am going to do a compression check and check my spring pressures to see if I have any failure there but wanted to see what you guys think my issues may be or what to check.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to cover everything. I hope I did.
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Sinister
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Does Nitrous have something against me?
Well the nitrous on my new engine went like crap. I got to the track late from working all day and got one pass. I had the timing retarded and everything to spray around a 100 shot. Opened the bottle and the pressure was only 800. My bottle warmer had two wires so I "rigged" a long wire through the back seat one to the pos and one to the neg on my battery. I wasn't working. I close my door and then next thing I know my car is rolling with smoke. Open the door and the wires caught the seat on fire. Put it out with my hand. I know dumb ass but I was desperate. Never did get the pressure up. So ran it like it was. Ran a crappy 6.71 with a 1.59 60ft.

The guys watching said the car grabs as long as the wheels are up but when the wheels come down the car unloads. I think my springs are too soft because I went to tighten my Afco's and ran out of tuning. I know that shouldn't happen. So this week I am going to put stiffer springs in the rear and try again. Starting at 10 clicks from full soft. If it doesn't rain. Oh yeah...and order a new bottle warmer and hook it to a toggle switch. I run an alternator so shouldn't drain my battery too much.





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Will this be a good enough fuel pump? E85
I want to keep a mechanical pump for my street driving. Should this be sufficient for my car 496, 13.1, E85 approx 700hp plus a 100-150 shot of spray eventually.

Holley #510-12-454-20
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Re: Compression test results....did I blow it?
I definitely have a knock. I think it is a rod knocking. I went through each cylinder and then checked all valve lash and then re checked. I am so annoyed and totally irritated at the same time. (I CAN"T BELIEVE THAT I AM GOING TO BE HAVING TO DO A 4TH REBUILD IN A LITTLE OVER A YEAR.) It isn't like I bought junk parts. Eagle H beam rods, forged pistons, brodix heads, the good bearings etc.. everything balanced, checked etc... No one else is going through this crap as much as me. I don't think I am asking much.

I want a 9 second car that runs on the street with stock suspension. With my 6.52 I was very close to that goal. I don't drive the car very hard on the road at all and race it at the drag strip about twice a month on average.

I'm done with this thing for the year! I'm tired of wasting money and can't get a loan to buy a new one. I have tried to buy what ever was asked of me so I could have a 9 second street car and I end up with another blown engine.

Thanks for all the help here guys but I am absolutely fed up and done with this thing. I guess it will get parked....again!

Damn I sound like I am 12! Sorry for the tantrum. lol
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post #118 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 17, 1:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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I never contacted you ever about building your engine, infact after you contacted me to rebuild your engine with spun bearings including oil that was burnt beyond recognition I did some research on you via the forum and realized what a horrible mistake I made agreeing to build you a engine. The first problem you had was you torched the cylinder head, which I fixed free of charge, pictures coming, after the cylinder head torch you ran the car every day with E85 in the crank case after months of this abuse you spun several bearing at the track after the car slowed down. My turbo stuff would rape your car, and bad.
That's a flat lie Mark. You contacted me. Just like you contact everyone on here. Just like how you pm everyone on here to make your case for them to post on here. The reason the engine blew in hind sight is the block. In all the builds we used the same block. I asked you not to use my block but to use one of yours. You assured me mine was fine. Then you complained because you had to heli coil the entire block. Money I spent that wasn't necessary had you used a different block. When the head blew we put all new oil and oil filter in it. I change my oil once a month. It's too cheap not too. Say what you want but if the moderators can go back thru files I welcome them to be honest and pull up pm's and see who contacted who.

I'm not sure what "turbo stuff" you are talking about. I would hope with you being a world famous engine builder that if you turbo'd something it would be fast. Can it drive further than around the block? Does it get decent gas mileage? I will give you credit. The first engine you did for Bob West you nailed it. What happened on the rebuild? He paid a bunch of money and it didn't perform. Who did you blame? You blamed Bob West. Guess what he isn't on the forum anymore partly because of you. I'll even do one better. You did an awesome job on Garrett Albrights engine. It has lasted and is fast and if it's not 8's it's close. Not sure if it could be a daily driver. I do know he drives it. Not sure what the mileage is either. He is happy with it and that's great. You screwed mine up plain and simple. You promised something you couldn't deliver.

Let's see this "turbo stuff" your talking about. I am hoping to get mine in the 5.20's this year seeing how I upgraded all my suspension. I might be crazy and get no where close but I enjoy trying to see how far I can push it and still drive it every day.

I am posting a picture of mine so you have a template to follow and some ideas of how to make a 8 sec daily seeing how your incapable of such a quest so far.



Love the look of the twins man
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post #119 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 17, 2:40 AM
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Re: Big Block vs LS

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Originally Posted by modchevelle View Post
Over 100. I had tuning problems. Im a old bbc type of guy Lol. I wanted it right and i was trying to do it myself but it was hard for me since I really am not computer friendly. I got it to run but that was it so I had a guy remote tune it to idle in the video. I now have another guy help fine tune the car by sending him my tune. This year was tough for me to get to drive it because of work, weather and family stuff always going on. Im glad I did not rush it and I also had a sbc converter that did not work so tranny had to come back out too. Its been a tuning year and changing out all my dumb things I did to the car like the BS crappy air filter you will see in the video. 2017 im going to boost it up a notch maybe but it goes ok now with a 69mm turbo and intercooler. Might have to go meth on it on pump gas.

2Stroke Gt45 Tune Walk Around - YouTube

looks god!
Im considdering a ls(lq) next time I need a engine. Only downside I se is that they dont look a good as a BB imho.
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post #120 of 242 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 17, 10:05 AM
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Steve "Dirty"
 
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Re: Big Block vs LS

Quote:
Originally Posted by impala View Post
looks god!
Im considdering a ls(lq) next time I need a engine. Only downside I se is that they dont look a good as a BB imho.
Oh I agree 1000% but having big $ into bbc wasnt for me and I had to pull the plug on the 496 project. Callies Crank,Brodix heads and the list went on and on. I bought Crazy Daveys used roller that came out of his 509 to run in the street along with slapping on a dominator to try to get over 600 hp on pump gas was not going to be a good thing for the street. I sold all my stuff and proceeded to buy LS stuff. I sold the carb for the whole 5.3 engine and stock computer. I parted all the stuff I wasnt going to use like harness,computer,injectors ,pan and more to compensate on new pan and injectors. Lots of buying and selling but I have a pretty fast dependable street car for around 3k and $1600 of that was for the Holley Hp and sensors I needed.

68 SS427 Chevelle
5.3 LS 84mm Billet Turbo

55 Chevy Field car
"Another One Back On Jack Stands"


But you'll appreciate me soon. You're gonna be hangin' on for mercy when I get this sucker rollin'.



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