So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build.... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 7:28 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

So...my present 402 is now running great, after a new dialed in QFT carb, and a new dialed in MSD HEI. Not a superman powerhouse, but strong runner nonetheless. As a bonus, the factory AC has been working great.

Basically...That means there is no huge hurry on the 496 anymore....

Nearly THREE months ago, I bought a used 454 to build.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428482

Upon disassembly, the crank was close to being un-useable, so I immediately decided on a stroker kit.

Dropped block off a few days after buying it. It took my local machine shop until last week to get the block cleaned up and magnafluxed, so I would know if it was a good core or not.

Yesterday, he gave me some prices and options...No biggie but some things are slightly higher priced than online, but he's good, local and trustworthy, so that weighs on my decisions as well.

He is doing the machine work, as well as mock up to clearance the block. I am doing assembly. Not a rookie here, but not an NHRA crew chief either.

MY PLAN, all along, was to build a nice, healthy cruiser that will kick some butt, when need be. Presently, the car has 273's and a TH400 with a 2500 stall. Great cruiser combo IMHO.

He is definitely OLD SCHOOL, but is engine guy on a local Pro Stock car as well.

Some things I am starting to get annoyed about though...
1. He did his best to talk me out of a peanut port 496. Said, no matter what, it won't make any power past 4500rpm's...
2. He is dead set on me using a Comp Cams camshaft, whether it be HFT or HR cam. I plan on a Straub custom HR cam, regardless...
3. He wants to re-do my 241 iron oval port heads (which I am 100% OK with), 2.19/1.88 valves, valve job (which he does well), but if I sell my 402 complete, there will be no 241's to re-do...That's all in at $1070 with NO PORT WORK. Says, I "don't need it" with my planned combo...

So....if you've read this far, here is my dilemma...

Since the whole "checking the block" thing took 2.5 months, I think I should just assemble the short block (minus the cam) and WAIT until I either yank the 402 out (so I'd have the 241's off), or until I decide to drop the bucks on some NEW heads, so I can get proper cam spec'd out by Chris Straub...

I KNOW that if the shortblock is done and sitting here in my shop, I will want to finish it and get it in the car, so I am now stressed out....already.

As for the peanut ports, I THOUGHT that I could have used them and left the 273's in since I "thought" it'd be a TORQUE MONSTER 496.

I read that someone on here works wonders on the PP heads, but wonder if it'd really be a cost effective mod after paying to ship these boat anchors back and forth across the USA...

So, I guess after all that blabbering, my QUESTION is...

Should I do a PEANUT PORT 496?

a freshened up, self ported 241 496?

or splurge two grand or so on some aluminum heads and make it a true street/strip 496?

Remember, the goal "WAS" a CRUISER that can kick some a$$ if need be.

I can leave the 273/2500 stall setup in, or swap back to my 373's and get a new custom converter....which I am open to...but it is SOOOOO NICE to actually enjoy the car now at highway speeds and a decent rpm.

HELP......


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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 7:36 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

That's quite the conundrum, my vote is get a set of Brodix Race-Rite 270 ovals from Mike Lewis, it's only money .

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 7:38 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Good core 781 and 049 heads arent but $150 a set or so. Add the $1000 for prep, and iron aftermarket heads dont look too bad price wise. I never did see what the attraction of PP heads is, unless you're building a truck motor.

I'd keep the 396 all bolted together as a running unit myself. And drive the hell out of it.Plug and play that 496 when its all ready-to-go.

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 7:47 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

IMHO, I'd go with the Brodix RR's, love mine!, fit like a glove no modification's ....talk to Mike Lewis (aka "Wolfplace") might be able to save you a few bucks!
Good luck!

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 8:28 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Sort of went thru the same issues and opted for a Gen VI block, Scat stroker kit, Gen VI sq. port marine heads and Lunati roller cam. A great low budget sleeper that runs cool and has a hammer when needed. I agree with 427L88 on his head advice and would add the 063 heads to the list. Aluminum heads can always be added later if the urge and cash comes along. FWIW, Ed

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 8:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94ttss View Post
That's quite the conundrum, my vote is get a set of Brodix Race-Rite 270 ovals from Mike Lewis, it's only money .
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Beau View Post
IMHO, I'd go with the Brodix RR's, love mine!, fit like a glove no modification's ....talk to Mike Lewis (aka "Wolfplace") might be able to save you a few bucks!
Good luck!
I haven't really done any research on these heads, but have seen nothing but good reviews in the few I read this morning.
"Fit like a glove, no modifications" is what I love to have just seen. I am TRYING to NOT make this engine a money pit, but on the other hand, want a good final product. I guess a PM or call to Mike Lewis is in order...lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
Good core 781 and 049 heads arent but $150 a set or so. Add the $1000 for prep, and iron aftermarket heads dont look too bad price wise. I never did see what the attraction of PP heads is, unless you're building a truck motor.

I'd keep the 396 all bolted together as a running unit myself. And drive the hell out of it.Plug and play that 496 when its all ready-to-go.
I think that's the way I am leaning. That also helps with the whole dumping $5 or $6K in one shot thing too... It seems to hurt just a little less to spread it out a bit.

For some reason, everyone near me thinks their old big block stuff is gold plated or something. Also, I never see any core heads for sale around me, but that's a thought too. I know Summit sells some iron heads for about $1500, but if I go that far, I might as well go the other $500 for aluminums...


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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 8:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDED View Post
Sort of went thru the same issues and opted for a Gen VI block, Scat stroker kit, Gen VI sq. port marine heads and Lunati roller cam. A great low budget sleeper that runs cool and has a hammer when needed. I agree with 427L88 on his head advice and would add the 063 heads to the list. Aluminum heads can always be added later if the urge and cash comes along. FWIW, Ed
I hear you, but I know if I get the engine in the car and running, I'll probably not ever swap the heads. My back couldn't take it...lol.

I'd much rather do whatever I am going to do, right from the start, so I am leaning the way of waiting until I can spare the extra cash for the better heads, and just driving the car the rest of the Summer...but you never know...


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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 10:23 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Unmodified PP heads can make pretty decent power but I can't see spending that much money on them. Plus they're more at home on a 402. As mentioned, aftermarket iron heads aren't much more than rebuilding the stock ones and they'll have more potential. Brodix RR heads and Edelbrock heads have stock exhaust port locations and flow pretty well but the Eddy wll respond to porting really well. Mine picked up 60+ cfm from mild porting.

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Quote:
Originally Posted by badrad View Post
Unmodified PP heads can make pretty decent power but I can't see spending that much money on them. Plus they're more at home on a 402. As mentioned, aftermarket iron heads aren't much more than rebuilding the stock ones and they'll have more potential. Brodix RR heads and Edelbrock heads have stock exhaust port locations and flow pretty well but the Eddy wll respond to porting really well. Mine picked up 60+ cfm from mild porting.
Thanks for the reply.
I sent Wolfplace a PM asking about Brodix pricing, and I also have a 10% discount code to go along with Summit's current free shipping offer.

That means for about $1800 I can have the Race Rite 270's, or some Edelbrocks. I'm looking through the ashtray now for some spare change...lol


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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 10:36 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

A bit of a dilemma, sounds a little like me.

I'm building a 496 as well. The short block is getting assembled, but I'm using the 063 heads and the intake off my current 396. Like you, I held off as long as I could while gathering parts, continuing to drive the 396, which ran just fine. I just finished yanking the heads and intake, so they can be dropped off to my builder. If all goes well, I'll only be down about 3 weeks.

Depending on your goals, there is power to be had from OE heads. I'm not shooting for a max effort motor, just a stout street cruiser.

Good luck, whichever way you go!

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 10:44 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
Good core 781 and 049 heads arent but $150 a set or so. Add the $1000 for prep, and iron aftermarket heads dont look too bad price wise. I never did see what the attraction of PP heads is, unless you're building a truck motor.
I agree. My 781's were free (a buddy just wanted them gone) and it cost me $1,000 to have them done real nice with 2.19/1.88 valves and all the associated hardware to work with my Isky hydraulic roller. That's half the cost of aluminum, and they run real good.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 11:57 AM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Ya, pretty happy with my 781s, but they're on a baby rat! Dont know if closed chamber heads would require unshrouding, but you'd get by with flattops and that long 4.25" arm for a solid comrepssion ratio. 063 might be the best bet there.

If you're going to ask that 496 to pull 2.73s, smaller the better, or higher the velocity at any given rpm the better I ought say. Ovals and a properly fit cam will do it.

I sold the 396 that came with my car, as I needed $ to paint it. In hindesite, the $1800 I got for it might have been better left on the stand. NOM as it was a 67 Camaro AT block, but still.

BTW, You ARE driving the 396 to the MCC show this weekend, aint ya?

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Last edited by 427L88; Jun 26th, 13 at 1:41 PM.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 12:25 PM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

I ran fully prepped -702 heads on the 496 that was in my '67. Heads came from Dr. J's. Big valves and installed 8005A Isky springs with a mild Isky hyd roller.
Sitting on top of a flat top Probe piston.... these heads did VERY well.

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 1:35 PM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Get the aluminum heads, they will make more power than the reworked stockers, plus the 75 lbs of weight savings off the nose of the front heavy car is something to consider too.


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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 13, 1:43 PM
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Re: So, I am in a quagmire with this 496 build....

Depends on how much one spends to rework the stockers. Some pros here get " AFR results" with boat anchors. But, that's top-of-the- line $1000+ in porting alone.

Blanket statements dont work well in real life.

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