Wierd Problem With PIMA update - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 1:59 AM Thread Starter
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Wierd Problem With PIMA update

My original posting (you can't add to an old post ): https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...blem-pima.html

Well, it has been a while. Soooo much stuff has been going on, but PIMA is back together. Just a little recap:

I wanted to use it for my son's wedding, but wouldn't start when the ring gear on the flywheel lost some teeth. Then I decided to pull the engine to add some much needed crankcase ventilation holes in the heads while the trans was out. I dismantled the engine, and when I pulled the lifters, #1 exhaust lifter was stuck in the bore. I took the short block to a local engine builder, and after much deliberation, I decided to bore the block for .903 diameter Morel lifters. The engine builder wanted to look at my heads, so I took them to him. He was really surprised that the AFR's head quality was that poor. Anyway, he cleaned the ports to remove all the casting flash, found 4 bad valves, 2 weak springs, and reground the valves. I also got those poor fitting Hedman headers replaced with 2-1/8" primary 3-1/2 collector Lemon's headers. I only had to lift the engine a little on the driver's side to install the header, but that passenger side was a bugger to put on. The Quicktime bell housing, winged oil pan, and the lower A-arm bracket made the installation a challenge, but we got it installed after several hours. Once installed they do fit well. I can see my plugs! I cut the old collector extensions off and welded the new ones on. Good to go, eh!?!?!?

"HAHAHA...NOT SO FAST", PIMA said. She fired up pretty well the first few times, but then she failed to idle, stalled several times, and was very hard to restart. NOW WHAT!!!! I tried several things, but then I noticed that the Idle Air Control was at 30% and should be less than 10%. I opened the throttle blades a quarter of a turn, reset the Throttle Position Sensor, and she purred like a kitten. (Okay the purring is the noisy Morel lifters) Now she runs fine and starts fine. The lifters are noisy, but they are quieting down a little. I'll probably adjust the lifters again on Monday and give them 3/4 turn instead of 1/2 turn.

I also have to get her scheduled in to the paint shop to get the hood and front header panel repainted. The paint bubbled and cracked, and a new hood was cheaper than getting the old one blasted and reworked.

A short video of her running. The shop is dirty along with PIMA, but they will both clean up fine...later.

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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
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post #2 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 4:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Weird Problem With PIMA update

I forgot to mention that the pilot bearing was bad, too. The T-56 Magnum transmission kit I got had a pilot bearing, so that is what I used. I replaced the bearing with a nonmagnetic bronze pilot bushing. When I first put my car together, I was going to dial-in the bell housing, but I didn't want to buy the $80 special plate that is necessary to measure the run-out. Since the bearing had no rollers left, I ordered the measuring plate. The bell housing TIR was out of spec, so I added offset dowels to get it within specifications. I did have a slight gear whine in the higher gears, but I thought that the whine was due to 3 previous differential failures causing some slight gear whine, but it must have been the pilot bearing failure. It is quiet now.

'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #3 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 6:49 AM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

If you didn't have bad luck, you'd have no luck at all.

Good thing you got plenty of money.
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post #4 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 6:58 AM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Glad to hear PIMA is back together and running
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post #5 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 7:31 AM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Sounds good from here. Try to get the hot iac to 10% or less. And put some timing in there!!


PS - how’s that hydro clutch working out?

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post #6 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69SHEVL View Post
If you didn't have bad luck, you'd have no luck at all.

Good thing you got plenty of money.
Yeah, the bad luck IS my good luck anymore. It's really just degrees of badness.

Shoot...I never put my car into the wall! Talk about money...phew! Plus, I have to talk about money in the past tense. PIMA, remodeling a room using oak trim and Pella windows with the blinds between the panes of glass, my daughter's wedding in Cleveland during the height of the riots, and the Corona Virus attacking my funds has got me beaten and bruised, but I'm still fighting! hahahaha


Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
Sounds good from here. Try to get the hot iac to 10% or less. And put some timing in there!!

PS - how’s that hydro clutch working out?
It's really strange Vince. I never changed anything on the throttle body, and all that the engine guy did was smooth out the runners in the heads. I wouldn't think that the minimal changes would need the throttle body blades opened up more. With the IAC at 30%, it had a hard time keeping up with the idle air. I knew it needed set, but I didn't think it would cause stalling and hard restarting problems. It is setting below 10% now, but I'll check it again later on.

My timing right now is at 15 degrees cranking, 32 degrees at idle, and works its way up to 36% total. I thought I heard a slight ping yesterday while doing some slow in-town driving, so I might just take it down to 30 degrees at idle just to be sure.

The hydraulic clutch is wonderful. It has a quick connect on a braided line that has a check valve in it much like an air hose. I plugged the line in, let it gravity bleed for a few seconds, and that's all I needed to do. There is no adjustment. There is also relatively no pedal effort. Dang it! I hope I didn't jinx myself!

'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #7 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 11:49 AM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Good to hear of some forward progress. Been a long road for you.
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post #8 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 1:13 PM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Mark , looks like your at least two steps forward and one back not one step forward and two back like PIMA was. Stubb’s won’t be making any noise in Ohio this summer or fall so probably won’t get to see PIMA until next year. Glad things are going good

Brian
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post #9 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 2:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

PIMA will probably be the first car in history to be infected by the Corona Virus. That's okay...we'll just give her Old&FoxyHydroxyMarkoquine to get her back on the road again...unless she becomes immune.
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'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #10 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 4:38 PM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Shoot...I never put my car into the wall! Talk about money...phew!
Yeah, but she be smiling now!


Mike

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post #11 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 5:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69SHEVL View Post
Yeah, but she be smiling now!

Lookin' good Mike!!

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'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #12 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 6:14 PM
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
My original posting (you can't add to an old post ): https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...blem-pima.html

Well, it hasI also got those poor fitting Hedman headers replaced with 2-1/8" primary 3-1/2 collector Lemon's headers. I only had to lift the engine a little on the driver's side to install the header, but that passenger side was a bugger to put on. The Quicktime bell housing, winged oil pan, and the lower installed after several hours. Once installed they do fit well. I can see my plugs! I cut the old collector extensions off and welded the new ones on. Good to go, eh!?!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
I was going to dial-in the bell housing, but I didn't want to buy the $80 special plate that is necessary to measure the run-out.

Mark,
Good to hear you are getting things together. Im suprised to hear you say you had problems with fitting the Headmans. I had Headmans on my 396 with a Quicktime bell housing and they fit great. I then put that same Quicktime on a 496 with Brodix heads, a Moroso winged oil pan, and 2 inch Lemon Headers and I have had to install the engine and headers twice and both times i found the header installation to be very difficult.
Also I did the bell housing dial in with the Quicktime on both the 396 and the 496. Not sure what plate you are referring to? I had to add offset dowels on the 396 but the 496 was within specs.
Hope to see you again at Strongesville. This year is a disappointment all around for car events.
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post #13 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 20, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by blm View Post
Mark,
Good to hear you are getting things together. Im suprised to hear you say you had problems with fitting the Headmans. I had Headmans on my 396 with a Quicktime bell housing and they fit great. I then put that same Quicktime on a 496 with Brodix heads, a Moroso winged oil pan, and 2 inch Lemon Headers and I have had to install the engine and headers twice and both times i found the header installation to be very difficult.
Also I did the bell housing dial in with the Quicktime on both the 396 and the 496. Not sure what plate you are referring to? I had to add offset dowels on the 396 but the 496 was within specs.
Hope to see you again at Strongesville. This year is a disappointment all around for car events.
The Hedman headers that I had were horrible! I had to smash them in 4 different spots on the drivers side, but the passenger side went in without issues. I couldn't get to # 8 plug without removing the header. I also burnt #3#5#8 plug wires. The driver's side 2-1/8" Lemon's header went in fairly well, but the passenger side was horrible to install. Oh well, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

The Quicktime bell housing RM-6023 for the T-56 isn't a continuous circle, so you need to use the RM-130 plate to bolt to the housing.



'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
MarkP is offline  
post #14 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 20, 4:43 AM
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Vince
 
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Yeah, the bad luck IS my good luck anymore. It's really just degrees of badness.

Shoot...I never put my car into the wall! Talk about money...phew! Plus, I have to talk about money in the past tense. PIMA, remodeling a room using oak trim and Pella windows with the blinds between the panes of glass, my daughter's wedding in Cleveland during the height of the riots, and the Corona Virus attacking my funds has got me beaten and bruised, but I'm still fighting! hahahaha




It's really strange Vince. I never changed anything on the throttle body, and all that the engine guy did was smooth out the runners in the heads. I wouldn't think that the minimal changes would need the throttle body blades opened up more. With the IAC at 30%, it had a hard time keeping up with the idle air. I knew it needed set, but I didn't think it would cause stalling and hard restarting problems. It is setting below 10% now, but I'll check it again later on.

My timing right now is at 15 degrees cranking, 32 degrees at idle, and works its way up to 36% total. I thought I heard a slight ping yesterday while doing some slow in-town driving, so I might just take it down to 30 degrees at idle just to be sure.

The hydraulic clutch is wonderful. It has a quick connect on a braided line that has a check valve in it much like an air hose. I plugged the line in, let it gravity bleed for a

few seconds, and that's all I needed to do. There is no adjustment. There is also relatively no pedal effort. Dang it! I hope I didn't jinx myself!

30* of idle timing is exactly where I'm at...any less and I lose vacuum and the IAC opens more. It also idles best with 15:1 AFR. Surprised it wants to be that lean.

At least you stuck with it after all the BS. It does get old after a while paying for stuff only having to redo it over and over. This hobby is getting a little too $$$

But, we do bring some of this sh!t on ourselves
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*69 SS 502 EFI /224-228* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90/ 4000lbs RW 11.5/124mph -with a "top fuel" timing curve
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*2019 Honda XR650 Dual sport
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post #15 of 87 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 20, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wierd Problem With PIMA update

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
30* of idle timing is exactly where I'm at...any less and I lose vacuum and the IAC opens more. It also idles best with 15:1 AFR. Surprised it wants to be that lean.

At least you stuck with it after all the BS. It does get old after a while paying for stuff only having to redo it over and over. This hobby is getting a little too $$$

But, we do bring some of this sh!t on ourselves

I'm at 14.5:1 at the most lean point, and it is a little stinky at idle. I am too rich, so maybe I might creep up to 15:1. I put an MSD 6A on it thinking that it might clean up some of the richness, but it did nothing but add signal to my electronic speedometer. I shielded the wires, and it has a lot less interference.

What do you have your Inductive Delay set at? I set mine at 400 usec. My timing would retard 6 degrees with higher RPM at the program's original setting of 50 usec, I think. I still use the small cap GM HEI, also.

Heck, it has been a couple of years since I've messed with this stuff. I finally had the engine running strong, I changed the differential to an Eaton TrueTrac, but PIMA broke again before I got back to the track. I'll probably just take it easy on her this year just because I don't want to do any more drive line repairs this year.

I might do an LS swap, or just add more power to the LT1, in my son's 94 Camaro Z-28 this winter. That's enough for me.

'69 Chevelle SS (Back to NOT ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
MarkP is offline  
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