Preparing for 11 seconds - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 5:53 PM Thread Starter
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Jerry
 
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Preparing for 11 seconds

With my last combo I was running 12.70's at 108 consistently. My 68 is more of a "cruise night" car than dragster, but I do like running the street legals occasionally. With the newer cars getting faster and faster I felt it was time to do something. The car is stock with factory air and a 468 (Edelbrock RPM pack) T400, 2800 Coan convertor and 3.73 geared 12 bolt.

I went to Vrbancic brothers racing in Ontario California and told them I need a new engine hopefully 600+ hp. I told them I would like to run pump gas (with a splash of 110 on race day) and retain my Edelbrock Oval 6045 Heads and Air gap performer intake. I also requested a Hydraulic roller cam.

They said no problem (with some minor head work including larger valves) and we're off to the races. The finished product will be a 10.5 to 1 540. I'm hoping to keep my John Avery 850 dp but we'll see.

So my question is,,, What will the car need to keep me and those around me safe at the track. I already have 275 60 MT drag radials. What axles etc will I need to update to?

Thanks Guys!


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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 6:22 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

The rules change significantly at 11.50. What are you planning to run.

At the minimum anything quicker than 12.0 you will need metal valve stems and an SFI approved harmonic balancer. The balancer may never get checked, but the valve stems likely will.

I’d spend the $10 on a rulebook. Why rely on others to tell you what you what you need when it’s easy to find it in writing yourself.

Here is something else to consider. The people in tech don’t know what your car runs. They will look it over as presented. If a car has modifications such as NOS, slicks, fuel cell, or a super charger they will look for certain things, even then they tend to be in a hurry and need to move through cars quickly. They will often only give the car a thorough inspection if there are red flags. It’s the tower that busts you if you outrun your safety equipment. If you do, expect to see someone who will thoroughly inspect the car. It’s useful to remember, not all tracks operate in the same manner. Small independent tracks want the money, large corporate tracks have deep pockets and are afraid of lawsuits, they will be more strict. It’s best just to follow the rulebook for safety’s sake and so you will never put yourself in the position where you can get sent home.

Steve R

Last edited by Steve R; Jul 4th, 20 at 6:50 PM. Reason: Z
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 6:53 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Bare minimum IMO, to run down to 11.50, would be driveshaft loop, which you should already have with the Drag Radials if tech was doing it's job, solid body u-joints if you are still using a shaft and yokes with 1310 series joints in it, aftermarket axles if still using C-clips, or c-clip eliminators with the stock axle shafts.
Anything more will be what the rule book says you need for the time you'll run.

You can access the NHRA Rule Book online for free now, you don't need to pay for it.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2019/2020-...ailable-online
you'll need to look at E.T. Handicap Racing Section 4A, and General Regulations Section 21
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 7:14 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericnova72 View Post
Bare minimum IMO, to run down to 11.50, would be driveshaft loop, which you should already have with the Drag Radials if tech was doing it's job, solid body u-joints if you are still using a shaft and yokes with 1310 series joints in it, aftermarket axles if still using C-clips, or c-clip eliminators with the stock axle shafts.
Anything more will be what the rule book says you need for the time you'll run.

You can access the NHRA Rule Book online for free now, you don't need to pay for it.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2019/2020-...ailable-online
you'll need to look at E.T. Handicap Racing Section 4A, and General Regulations Section 21
The lack of some of those items might get you a warning to get them fixed, but won’t get you kicked out, however you didn’t mention several obvious items that will instantly get you sent home. Once you run 11.49 or quicker in a car older than 2008 you will be required to have a 5pt roll bar, 5pt harness and SFI fire jacket.

Steve R
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 7:29 PM Thread Starter
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Jerry
 
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve R View Post
The rules change significantly at 11.50. What are you planning to run.

At the minimum anything quicker than 12.0 you will need metal valve stems and an SFI approved harmonic balancer. The balancer may never get checked, but the valve stems likely will.

I’d spend the $10 on a rulebook. Why rely on others to tell you what you what you need when it’s easy to find it in writing yourself.

Here is something else to consider. The people in tech don’t know what your car runs. They will look it over as presented. If a car has modifications such as NOS, slicks, fuel cell, or a super charger they will look for certain things, even then they tend to be in a hurry and need to move through cars quickly. They will often only give the car a thorough inspection if there are red flags. It’s the tower that busts you if you outrun your safety equipment. If you do, expect to see someone who will thoroughly inspect the car. It’s useful to remember, not all tracks operate in the same manner. Small independent tracks want the money, large corporate tracks have deep pockets and are afraid of lawsuits, they will be more strict. It’s best just to follow the rulebook for safety’s sake and so you will never put yourself in the position where you can get sent home.

Steve R
I've probably made over a hunderd passes at Autoclub dragway. I've been through tech and they usually ask me what the car runs. I won't really know until next time out. The rules on their web site do not give specifics on what axle upgrades I should be running. This is what I'm searching for. I already have metal valve stems and an SFI approved balancer and flexplate. The tech guy advised me to get a driveshaft loop before but said it wasn't something they would kick me out for. I want to get one now though. Hoping to find something that attaches to the trans mount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericnova72 View Post
Bare minimum IMO, to run down to 11.50, would be driveshaft loop, which you should already have with the Drag Radials if tech was doing it's job, solid body u-joints if you are still using a shaft and yokes with 1310 series joints in it, aftermarket axles if still using C-clips, or c-clip eliminators with the stock axle shafts.
Anything more will be what the rule book says you need for the time you'll run.

You can access the NHRA Rule Book online for free now, you don't need to pay for it.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2019/2020-...ailable-online
you'll need to look at E.T. Handicap Racing Section 4A, and General Regulations Section 21
I'll look into the u joints. When I had the trans rebuilt the guy said I had the good u joints but I don't know what that equates to. Not sure what the c clip eliminators are. I'm guessing this strengthens how the axles attach to the center carrier...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve R View Post
The lack of some of those items might get you a warning to get them fixed, but won’t get you kicked out, however you didn’t mention several obvious items that will instantly get you sent home. Once you run 11.49 or quicker in a car older than 2008 you will be required to have a 5pt roll bar, 5pt harness and SFI fire jacket.

Steve R
Thanks guys! I appreciate the replys!


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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 8:39 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

c-clip eliminators convert the c-clip axle to a press-on bearing and retainer block so that is its much like a 9" Ford style.....so it the axle breaks anywhere along it's length or the c-clip button breaks off or the axle twists off at the spline the wheel and axle don't exit the car causing considerable damage to the car, anything the car might hit out of control, or you.

Looking at the newest rules, they aren't a requirement until you go 10.99 or quicker, or if you have a spool, mini-spools included.
Old spec used to be 11.99 or 11.49, I don't remember which....so you should be good there, but it is still a safety issue IMO if you have stock GM axles are are trying to hook and launch a 11 second car.

I doubt you'll find a driveshaft loop kit that will just bolt to the trans crossmember, you'll probably have to make that adaption of a commonly available loop yourself....but I'm not totally up on what new stuff might be out there for the A-body, somebody could be doing one now.
I did one years ago for a friend where we just built what looked like a second trans crossmember but with a loop in the center instead of a trans mount. He didn't want anything permanent on the car.

I left out the obvious stuff for general track tech....all lug studs present, studs visible if using aftermarket wheels(open end lug nuts and stud protruding though them), dual carb return springs, 1qt minimum radiator overflow, locking trans dipstick, metal valvestems, no snap-on wheel centercaps or hubcaps, factory seat belt, helmet still in cert spec, rear main electrical shut-off if battery in the trunk, neutral safety switch and there might be something I missed.
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 8:47 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

As far as axle upgrades, I would look a 33spline axles at the least with a 540, the torque can twist 31 spline axles on a engine that CI. as mentioned look into c clip eliminators, you will have to upgrade carrier to run larger axles. I do sometimes over build things but when it comes to twisting or breaking an axle it is better to be safe then wrecked. I would upgrade to 1350 u joints and yokes billet would be best but steel works fine at the power level you are going for. this is just personal preference you can do what you think works best for you, the rule book is a great idea.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 9:14 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

I bought one of those drive shaft loops that bolts to the trans mount, but it was too small to fit past the 1350 series trans slip yoke. So I bought and installed this one from UMI Performance, ( comes in red or black). This is nice because instead of having straight mounting arms like all of the generic/universal type loops do, it had the mounting arms at an angle to match the angle of the reinforcement ribs on the GM A-body floor boards, (which is where you want to mount it for strength purposes).

So it isn't too difficult to install one of these. I removed the front seats, had the car up securely on jack stands, matched the mounting holes to the reinforcement ribs of the floor, and made marks, and then drilled four holes, (two on each side). I then bolted it to the floor with grade 8 bolts and nuts, and used wide large diameter fender washers underneath thicker regular size washers underneath the bolt heads and the nuts, to spread the load. Then bolted the two front seats back to the floor.

https://www.umiperformance.com/home/...t-safety-loop/
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Great info guys! I really appreciate it!


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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 11:06 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Here's some more visual aid for ya..... .pretty simple stuff though.....
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 11:32 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

I used this driveshaft loop. Works great, and no drilling holes in the body. I also upgraded to a G Force trans crossmember. On my unibody car it was amazing how much that stiffened the chassis.

Solid valve stems, SFI flexplate and balancer, roll bar (to 11.0, 5 point under 11.0), sfi jacket, harness. I would upgrade to moly axles, ARP 1/2" wheel studs, solid spicer ujoints (or have an aluminum driveshaft made with 1350 joints). If you put rear disc brakes on you don't need to put c clip eliminators on. They will ok them for being able to retain the axle if the clip fails. In the diff I would also put ARP bearing cap stud kit and a TA girdle cover.

https://www.ramairrestoration.com/ch...-vehicles.html

https://www.crossmembers.com/

GM Girdles | TAPerformance.com
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 11:46 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by pockets View Post
I used this driveshaft loop. Works great, and no drilling holes in the body. I also upgraded to a G Force trans crossmember. On my unibody car it was amazing how much that stiffened the chassis.

Solid valve stems, SFI flexplate and balancer, roll bar (to 11.0, 5 point under 11.0), sfi jacket, harness. I would upgrade to moly axles, ARP 1/2" wheel studs, solid spicer ujoints (or have an aluminum driveshaft made with 1350 joints). If you put rear disc brakes on you don't need to put c clip eliminators on. They will ok them for being able to retain the axle if the clip fails. In the diff I would also put ARP bearing cap stud kit and a TA girdle cover.

https://www.ramairrestoration.com/ch...-vehicles.html

https://www.crossmembers.com/

GM Girdles | TAPerformance.com
Yep, that's just like the drive shaft loop I had originally bought, which might be fine for smaller 1310 U-joints, but it wasn't big enough for the 1350 series trans slip yoke I have to pass through. That's why I ended up going with the one from UMI Performance.

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 20, 10:19 AM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

Take a step back and start from the beginning. 600+ hp is enough to go in the 10’s. Mine made 6-625 at 3360 lbs and went 10.30’s at 130. Do it right or you’re going to break a lot of stuff.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 20, 1:27 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

How about better brakes.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old Jul 5th, 20, 2:58 PM
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Re: Preparing for 11 seconds

You need to do your own research as to what safety equipment is required. Much of what has been suggested is wrong.

I helped out at the local track and often had to check cars for the proper safety equipment when they ran quicker than certain ET’s. I can’t tell you how often the driver would tell me, “my friend who races told me this is what I needed.” It’s up to you to figure out what your car needs and make sure it meets the rules based on the ET or MPH you are running.

Don’t skimp on safety, the only person I’ve ever seen killed was a guy with a tube chassis car that crossed the finish line at 122mph, made a 90 degree turn into the wall when a brake pad disintegrated.

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