Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality.... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 1:13 PM Thread Starter
Greg
 
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Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

You probably saw the Hot Rod Garage show where they ran solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam to see how it worked out (good, but reliability questions remain). Anyhow, the show could double as an ad for Crane hydraulic roller lifters... the Dyno guy at West Tech kept saying that their are lots of crappy hyd. roller lifters out there, but the Crane units are stable to 7000 and even 8000 RPM. My question is, whose lifters suck? I am thinking about buying a Comp kit that makes power to well over 6,500 and it would be good to know if lifter issues are going to let it down at high revs.
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 1:40 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

If you plan a cam that will rev past 6500 get it on billet core with cast gear option(comp can do that) get their short travel lifter(if you stay with comp) they can handle more spring pressure and run a spring with some pressure especially of its a BB, lightweight retainers may also be a good idea. Either titanium or tool steel.

Any more info about your build?
BB sb? Size? Heads? Etc.
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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 1:45 PM
 
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlympia View Post
You probably saw the Hot Rod Garage show where they ran solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam to see how it worked out (good, but reliability questions remain). Anyhow, the show could double as an ad for Crane hydraulic roller lifters... the Dyno guy at West Tech kept saying that their are lots of crappy hyd. roller lifters out there, but the Crane units are stable to 7000 and even 8000 RPM. My question is, whose lifters suck? I am thinking about buying a Comp kit that makes power to well over 6,500 and it would be good to know if lifter issues are going to let it down at high revs.
For my 400 build-up that I still have not finished I have a Crane 296 Billet hyd roller cam with cast gear and Crane retrofit hyd roller lifters. I bought them back in 2004, I see that the part number I bought is now $800, I think I paid $299 for them back in 2004. Crane has been claiming for years that their lifters are good to 7000rpm+. I am interested to see what the members here have to say about them.

77 camaro,
400 build-up in progress
400 0.030 over, AFR 195 heads 68cc chambers, SRP 16cc dish pistons, Scat I-Beam rods 7/16 bolts, Scat 9000 cast crank, Crane 296 hyd roller cam, hooker 1 3/4 headers, Holley 750, Richmond 4.10:1 gears
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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 1:57 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

I've been running the Crane retrofit hydraulic lifters for about 7k miles and 6 years in a 355. No noise and no problems. Like mentioned above, I think they were ~$400 or so when I bought them, but that was right around the time Crane was going through / recovering from Bankruptcy. Looks like the price has doubled! Yikes!

EDIT: I should also add that my engine doesn't spin above 6k rpm, so I can't vouch for how they work at higher speeds.
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 2:00 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Crane did some testing 10+years ago.
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Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 6:57 PM Thread Starter
Greg
 
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu ss 64 View Post
If you plan a cam that will rev past 6500 get it on billet core with cast gear option(comp can do that) get their short travel lifter(if you stay with comp) they can handle more spring pressure and run a spring with some pressure especially of its a BB, lightweight retainers may also be a good idea. Either titanium or tool steel.

Any more info about your build?
BB sb? Size? Heads? Etc.
Small block 350 CI, Summit Cast Iron 2.02 semi-Voretc heads, Performer RPM, Holley 650, 1&5/8 long tube headers, 2.5" exhaust. Looking at Comp Extreme Energy 230/236 cam/lifter/valve spring kit.
6500 RPM will be pretty much be my practical redline, as I am running a cast component block until it breaks but you never know...
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 7:16 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

They look to be more expensive than Johnsons/Isky. Who makes them?

Jim

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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 7:51 PM
 
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 cruiser View Post
They look to be more expensive than Johnsons/Isky. Who makes them?
The retrofit vertical locking bar lifters are machined from 8620 steel billet, heat treated,
and assembled at our own facilities.
Precision fit plunger assemblies are used to provide
proper bleed-down rates, permitting high RPM use in properly set-up engines. The
additional inherent strength of the 8620 material also maintains greater stability in the
lifter body, permitting more consistent operation in very high spring pressure and high
RPM applications, by keeping the plunger to body clearance consistent throughout the
operation range. Retrofit lifters also utilize our latest Monel pin and retaining flange
assembly to attach the guidebar, providing superior long term durability


Above taken from Page 168 of the Crane catalog. It seems like Crane makes their own hyd roller lifters
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77 camaro,
400 build-up in progress
400 0.030 over, AFR 195 heads 68cc chambers, SRP 16cc dish pistons, Scat I-Beam rods 7/16 bolts, Scat 9000 cast crank, Crane 296 hyd roller cam, hooker 1 3/4 headers, Holley 750, Richmond 4.10:1 gears
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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 8:59 PM
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Mr Bill
 
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Mercruiser used Crane valve train components in their higher output Big Blocks for years and they seemed pretty bulletproof but they rarely are turned to even 6000 rpm. But they will run for hours at a time at cruising rpms. I dont know who is making their stuff now days.

That being said I think if I was building anything that was going to be regularly turned 6500 rpm or more I would have to go with a solid roller. Maybe if you were building a small block with very light components but that would even be iffy in my opinion. I think it is pushing the limits on the hydraulics.

Bill Koustenis
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Waldorf Md


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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 9:54 PM Thread Starter
Greg
 
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
Mercruiser used Crane valve train components in their higher output Big Blocks for years and they seemed pretty bulletproof but they rarely are turned to even 6000 rpm. But they will run for hours at a time at cruising rpms. I dont know who is making their stuff now days.

That being said I think if I was building anything that was going to be regularly turned 6500 rpm or more I would have to go with a solid roller. Maybe if you were building a small block with very light components but that would even be iffy in my opinion. I think it is pushing the limits on the hydraulics.
Yeah I tend to agree, this is right at the limit of hydraulic roller territory. My trips to the 6500 zone will be pretty infrequent, this will be my general purpose parts getter rig. I am saving my stupid money for the big block car project that I am gathering parts for...
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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 11:12 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

IIRC, Crane was one of the few After Market companies who made/was good enough to make parts for the OEM.

For example, the ZZ383 cam is actually made by Crane....or was at one point.

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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 2:18 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlympia View Post
Small block 350 CI, Summit Cast Iron 2.02 semi-Voretc heads, Performer RPM, Holley 650, 1&5/8 long tube headers, 2.5" exhaust. Looking at Comp Extreme Energy 230/236 cam/lifter/valve spring kit.
6500 RPM will be pretty much be my practical redline, as I am running a cast component block until it breaks but you never know...
Not superradical.
Use Comp std lifter if you decide to use comp. But imho get the cam on billet core with cast gear and use the springs with most pressure if they recomend different for the cam you decide to use. 150 seat and 400 open should work imho on a sb.
If you think you will rev it hard lighten up valvetrain with toolsteel or titanium retainers.

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 9:43 AM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

It is a bit more involved then just what rpm the lifters will do. Cam lobe spring valves all play a part. My guys can get the gm delphi hydraulic roller lifters to live at 8000 rpm in the right engine. So it has some with lifters but also rest of combo.

RH
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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 2:58 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

My personal experiences with Comp hydraulic lifters roller or flat has not be good. I will never use them again.
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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 3:35 PM
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Re: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Quality....

Use whatever.

I had crane, morel and GM. Morel currently. No real noticeable difference. If The engine ever comes apart again I’ll run GM lifters again since my block has that option.

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