Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

 253Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 2:16 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

I started with the S.O.B. story and will write that another day.

Here's the short version.

I took delivery of a new engine built by Mister Terry Walters
and with David Vizards specifications, parts, etc. It ran on
Mister Walter's Dyno.

This was in 2017.

From the recommendation of a former NHRA Drag Racer, I Drove my
Chevelle to Rico and Son's, Certified Master Mechanic,
Dallas, Texas U.S.A. to install my engine. After giving Rico a test ride
in the Chevelle, Rico asked me why I wanted the new engine installed.

He told me then that it was the best BBC Chevelle he's ever ridden in.
And said I was crazy, why the new engine?

I want more! I told him, I want more H.P., more torque, and more performance.

We agreed on price, contract, etc. They installed Mister Walter's engine in my
1969 Chevelle SS396. They could never get it running. It ran like ****, back
firing, flooding etc making unknown valve noise.

I immediately contact Mr. Walters with symptoms, his recommendation
"tighten the valves by a 1/4 turn" but their shouldn't be any valve noise
as we had it running just fine on the dyno.

I relayed this information to Rico and Son, Certified Master Mechanic.
Coming back to the shop the next day, RASCMM told me it still ran like
Scheisse with valve noise, gas leaking down into the oil, too much fuel
pressure and he could only adjust the passenger side valves because the
power booster of the master cylinder was in the way and they couldn't
take the valve cover off to adjust those valves, that I would have to do
them my self.

The incredible feeling that I'm getting EFFed by

Rico and Son, (there is no son mechanic it is the uncertified cousin
does the work[hack]) came over me.
Oh, and I can adjust the driver side valves 1/4 turn myself.

Yes, I was getting effed and just when you didn't think it could...
...it did.

Rico and Son, Certified Hacks (CH) presented me with a bill over three times
the agreed to price. AND he demanded that I pay him in cash if I wanted
my Chevelle back!

AND

He didn't even include the down payment and weekly progress payments I've made.

Return to the Hack Shack

When I went back the next day to discuss everything, Rico and Son, CH told me
that they put my 1969 Chevelle SS396 in off site storage until I paid them in full
three times more than the agreed to price of my engine installation.
And it just goes down hill from here.

It still doesn't run and I've not tried since having it towed back
to the house. I started draining the fuel tank and just stopped.
I'ts been sitting for three years now and I want and need to get
it running but I can't think right about it.

Mister Walters hasn't answered or returned my calls.
Mr. Vizard posted that he was looking for a new engine builder.

I'm too old now and too screwed up physically to do what needs to be done.
But I've started to try again any way.

Now I'm and pissed off again to finish up writing this tonight.
I won't get any sleep, etc. etc. Yeah a S.O.B. story is right,
and they're the effing S.O.B.s

I don't have the experience to trouble shoot this high-performance engine
install that went arye (A-rye).

Rico and Son, CH fornicated EVERYTHING they touched.

I don't have the funds to buy everything all over again.
I don't know how to trouble shoot trying to get it running either.

With your assistance and patience I will try. I will try and document
what I've attempted so far and all the fornicated things that need to
be un-fornacated.

to be continued....
427L88 likes this.

Last edited by USMC_Spike; May 14th, 20 at 2:43 AM.
USMC_Spike is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:19 AM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,378
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Hey Marine, where is the old engine? You may want to "cancel that trade" and put the proper running mill back in.


Speaking of it going awry (sp?), there is not much to be done but take it down, and have someone who actually knows his schiess backwards and forwards, and gives a rats ass to perfection , to do it. VortecPro - Racing & Machine - Homepage My recommendation is a fella in Colorado Springs who thinks alot like me. But way smarter. You'll find other WELL REGARDED builders on this site.

Until then, put the old mill back in. If you didn't have the skills/tools to swap your own engine, I would NOT send you on a mission to diagnose the turd. Honestly. What are you going to do, take it all down and re-hone the bores with a torque plate? The bore measuring tool itself is well over $1000, just to see what form of clusterfck has been committed. For your sanity and peace of mind sir, enlist the aid of a TRUE professional. Who lets you use their first name. And has built 1000's of engines. And doesnt need David Vizard to promote him, as his work stands up to intense scrutiny all by itself. They are out there.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!

Last edited by 427L88; May 14th, 20 at 9:48 AM.
427L88 is offline  
post #3 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:40 AM
Senior Tech Team
jeff
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yukon ok.
Posts: 5,172
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

First thing I would do is drain oil and fill it with some good oil and new filter then if you have not cranked it up in 3 years I would pull distributor and prime the engine.
Pull and replace or clean all spark plugs.
Inspect inside of distributor and check cap for cracks.


Install inline fuel pressure gauge.. temporary one. Or if it is an electric fuel pump just install the pressure gauge to the carb feed line and get the pressure correct.

You can adjust the valves on the engine while it is cold and not running.
I would do that.

Is this a roller or flat tappet cam?
If a flat tappet cam I would use Gibbs Driven Break-in oil for the fill up.
Even if it was already broke in..just basing that on an engine that sat for years before turning over.

Carb will need to come apart and look for any dirt and clogged holes. Just a going through and stick it back together.

Check intake bolts make sure they are snug.
Coolant level correct in radiator?

Fire it up.

You may need to tune the carb and mess with timing.

After you fire it up I would run the engine at 2000-2500 rpm for 5 minutes at least to get plenty of oil splashed on all the parts.

If it runs like crap I would let it cool and pull all spark plugs and do a compression test on all cylinders.
Make sure the battery is in excellent condition.
71350SS, 427L88, scalise71 and 3 others like this.
jeff swisher is offline  
 
post #4 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:50 AM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,378
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Yeah, I screwed up and didn't read the background data well enough Marine, sorry. Jeff has a good procedure right there.
USMC_Spike likes this.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #5 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:19 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,034
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

If I sell someone an engine, I make sure they are happy with it and help them get it tuned right but that's on a complete engine. If a sell a short block it's on them.
USMC_Spike likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
68Chevele is offline  
post #6 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:37 PM
Team Member
Bob
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gainesville/ERA, TX
Posts: 540
Send a message via AIM to 540 Olds
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Spike,

Where do you live?
USMC_Spike likes this.
540 Olds is offline  
post #7 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 9:39 PM
Super Mod
Mr Bill
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Waldorf Md. USA
Posts: 12,333
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

spike,
Why dont you tell us exactly where you are in Texas and maybe we could recommend someone close to you that could help. Judging by your questions I really think it would be to your benefit to have an experienced person helping you out.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
1984 Buick Riviera - original owner (Wife's car)
Team Chevelle #100
BillK is offline  
post #8 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

427L88, Jeff Swisher, 68chevelle, 540 Olds, BillK,

Hi, I'm in North Texas, N.E.Dallas, around Plano Rd. and LBJ.
R&S CH is 1 block south of that location. House is only a couple
of miles from that location.

BillK, I would agree, hence my post.

No worries Gene, it is what it is.

Yes, I thought what Jeff wrote was pretty spot on.

Another reason why I never attempted to start it up
as I wasn't sure if R&S CH sabotaged something
contaminated fuel oil etc. It was really weird how
he turned out...wanted a boat load of cash for screwing
up everything they touched.

68 Chevelle - I agree, that is how I treat people too.
I want things to be right.

Here is list that I started working on today, it has things
from before that I included. I keep hearing the words of
Mister Walters in my head, don't touch anything, don't
fool with the distributor etc etc etc.

I made up two lists, Changes Trouble Shooting.
Simpler to pic it and post it than retyping.
USMC_Spike is online now  
post #9 of 123 (permalink) Old May 14th, 20, 10:32 PM
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 185
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Any idea on how it ran on the dyno?

It seems that if it ran well on the dyno, I, like everyone else, would start from scratch as if it's a new install. go through priming it, reset the distributor, adjust the valves, new fuel, etc....if the engine is garbage, I don't think you're going to do any more damage than what's done already...
USMC_Spike likes this.

72 SS 402/4 speed/Straub roller and a bunch of Duramaxes.....
jrkrace is offline  
post #10 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 1:43 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

jrkrace, It ran fine on the dyno. 700HP 700LbFt.
That was the last time it ran.

I talked with 540 OLDS and he agreed to try and help me with this,
around mid week next week.

There is a lot of prep work that I'm not sure I can do by then,
mainly because I have to move a lot of packed stuff in the garage
to get some of the things I need, floor jack, engine stands, etc.

Why?

The Chevelle was dropped off by the towing company
engine down on about a 20 to 30 degree down sloping driveway.

So to drain oil effectively, it needs jacked up then on the steel
ramps which then would be almost flat. I Don't have a front drain plug in the pan.

Here are a series of pics that I took and post here. See what stands out?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	01.01_EngineBay.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	112.1 KB
ID:	626690   Click image for larger version

Name:	01.02_CarbIntakeValCovers.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	75.4 KB
ID:	626692   Click image for larger version

Name:	01.03_DriversSide.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	120.4 KB
ID:	626694   Click image for larger version

Name:	01.04_PassSide.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	152.2 KB
ID:	626696  

Click image for larger version

Name:	01.05_ELE_PassSide.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	149.8 KB
ID:	626698  
USMC_Spike is online now  
post #11 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 1:51 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Here is the next series of pics, carb, etc.
I paid additional money for the big AED carb
that had vacuum ports etc. for it and the distributor.
To help idle and low rpm drivability.


This is what Mister Walters sent instead
The Holley Ultra 950 XP. No vacuum ports
on it either. Not sure how to properly tune
and dial it in.



Now I'm not sure if R&S-CH tried to adjust
idle via these screws, as we would with a standard
Holley Carb. Turning these screws for idle asjustment

is a no-no with this carb. The Holley Ultra 950 XP idle adjusts
in the carbs center, by taking the threaded
air cleaner rod off the carb and adjusting the screw down
there. Don't have pic of it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	02.01_CarbDriverSide.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	109.5 KB
ID:	626700   Click image for larger version

Name:	02.02_CarbPassSide.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	93.8 KB
ID:	626702   Click image for larger version

Name:	02.03_CarbWinFrontBowlDriver.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	68.8 KB
ID:	626704   Click image for larger version

Name:	02.04_CarbWinRearBowlDriver.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	626706  

USMC_Spike is online now  
post #12 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 1:54 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

I think plug wiring is correct, but here it is in pics.
Spread out wires a bit to be easier to view.
The last pic shows how R&S CH placed wire
looms on that were too small and cut the new wires.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	03.01_PlugWireDriverSide.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	126.6 KB
ID:	626708   Click image for larger version

Name:	03.02_PlugWirePass.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	143.8 KB
ID:	626710   Click image for larger version

Name:	03.03_PlugWireDistrib.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	88.2 KB
ID:	626712   Click image for larger version

Name:	03.04_CutNewWires.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	90.1 KB
ID:	626714  

USMC_Spike is online now  
post #13 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 2:18 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

From what I understand, there are issues with the electronics that I currently have
that are not compatible with MSD ignitions. I have the parts for an HEI system
along with spares. I have to get out literature about this as Capacitive Discharge
aren't compatible with Inductive Systems. HEI system from my limited knowledge
has standard spark polarity while MSD has opposite spark polarity.

Or something like that and I'll need to dig through stuff to figure it all out.

What coils work with MSD? I have a small Ultra Coil with the Sparkplug looking
thing coming out one side and laminations out the other side.
I also have the large yellow Accel Super Coil.
The coil installed is the Large Jacobs Ultra Coil, that many consider the finest
automotive coil every made. Measuring 3 ohm resistance that MSD doesn't like?

So that is all for this morning. Ideas for moving forward are forming.
I definitely need to know how the set up for Holley Ultra 950XP?

The Cam is a Vizard specified Crane Hydraulic Roller, 248-372.
As I've never received a cam card for this I don't know what LSA is etc.
Mister Walter's Said he didn't have a cam card.

I am not Anal Retentive, but I sure as shirt want all the info
that I paid a lot of money for.



I'm still feeling fornicated over this thing!
427L88 likes this.

Last edited by USMC_Spike; May 15th, 20 at 2:35 AM.
USMC_Spike is online now  
post #14 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 3:17 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Spike
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tejas USA
Posts: 300
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

I did contact Crane Cams to ask about the cams LSA, they couldn't tell me either.
The guy did give me a range and thought it might be 107.5 or 108. I can't recall
the exact numbers, but at least that is what he said. That would seem reasonable
for a Vizard cam.
USMC_Spike is online now  
post #15 of 123 (permalink) Old May 15th, 20, 3:40 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CT,USA
Posts: 13,265
Re: Assist Getting BBC Running I can't think it through

Well there might be a light at the end of the tunnel for you here. Ofcourse this is merely a wild guess on my part since it can be a difficult thing to diagnose engine problems over the internet, but after reading your posts and viewing your posted pictures, I think there's a very good chance that your problems with this engine are electrical, rather than mechanical, so it's the electrical ignition items that I would focus on first if I were you.

#1. Ignition timing: many timing lights do not play nice with MSD ignition boxes since they're just not compatible. So you may need to bite the bullet and pay the big bucks for this timing light made by MSD especially for their ignition boxes.....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8992 (hopefully these timing lights are made better and are more reliable than their ignition boxes are since 2013 when MSD out-sourced many of their products overseas)......

#2. I have those same Taylor "409" 10.4mm plug wires as you do, and as you already know, you have to use the Taylor wire looms especially for those wires, and the fact that your present Taylor wires are sliced up, might be the cause of your engine running like crap because the wires might be arcing all over the place where they're sliced. I'd replace those wires immediately before proceeding to anything else.

#3. I've never had Jacobs brand ignition parts, but it's always been my understanding that they're very different than ignition parts of any other brand, and my guess is that they might not be compatible with anything else, (including MSD). So I would remove that jacobs coiland anything else from Jacobs that you have on there, unless you want to use all their ignition products instead of the MSD. But I think it needs to be one brand or the other, and for me personally, I would only use MSD if I had I had their stuff that was made at least 7 years ago because they have gone downhill since then.

You might have other issues besides the ignition parts, but it's worth it to begin there, because you might get lucky and discover that the ignition parts were the only problem. But ofcourse a compression check, and a fuel pressure check, as well as pre-oiling the engine through the distributor hole in the intake manifold is in order. But think about it....if at least 3 or 4 of the cylinders weren't firing, or were only firing intermittently due to sliced up plug wires arcing badly, then that alone might cause lots of unburnt air/fuel charges to be flowing through those cylinders, which in turn might be the cause of fuel in the oil. Just a hunch, but one worth investigating by replacing those damaged plug wires. Either way, you need to replace them with good wires anyway. So why not do that FIRST??

70 Chevelle SS clone (632 CI powered).
BillyGman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome