Rocker geometry...my turn - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 20, 8:39 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Rocker geometry...my turn

Bill (William Hennke) and Rick (Shovelrick) have had their turn...now it's mine.

My 502 has the early AFR 305 Magnum heads. I just went through another rebuild because this time the lifters got gouged in the bores. https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...blem-pima.html I spent some time whittling my honey-do list down, and now I have time to put my engine back together. While measuring for pushrods, I noticed that the roller on my rocker isn't centered well enough on the intake. I should probably have back-set rockers of some kind, but what is my best option? I just poured ANOTHER ton of money into this engine, and I want a good solution to try to make it last a little longer than 5,000 miles.

This is a picture of my intake rocker at mid lift. It is pretty far towards the exhaust side, so I think I need to move it back. I don't know if Chris' rockers would move it back far enough or not. I'm sure that he or Scott will chime in.



This is the exhaust side. I think it is close enough to the center. The sweep is always narrow on this valve, so I think it's good.


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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 19th, 20, 11:06 PM
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Bill
 
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Pretty sure those are the heads that got Scott to get rockers with better geometry made call him
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 12:18 AM
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rick
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

I agree give Scott a call I'm using his intakes rockers on all int & exh and center nice, not done yet though


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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 5:23 AM
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Vince
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Using a solid lifter?

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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 6:52 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

What rockers are on it now ? Just curious.

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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 7:14 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN SS View Post
Pretty sure those are the heads that got Scott to get rockers with better geometry made call him

I'm using those rockers on my early AFR 315 heads and it worked well.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 8:25 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Hey Mark, as others have said the rockers that Straub has will correct this I went through the same issue with my new heads and this was the answer.


Good to hear you will be back on the road this year


Brian
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 8:52 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Mark pick up some Prussian Blue and use checking springs on #1 int. & exh. valves, you really don't have to use the checker springs but that took the "maybe I shoulda" out of my head, and my PR measurements came out different from Comp Ultra Pro Magnums to Straub Tech rockers, hoping my Trend PRs get her today or tomorrow so I can get mine together then make an appt. to dyno, my Brodix RR-R 294's with a .600 cam came out about dead center using Straubs int. rockers on all the valves and no more than a dime (.053) width in sweep going to use feeler gauges when the Trends get here while the checker springs are still on, I'll post pics
Kevin 65cayne had a good thread on rocker arm geometry not long ago that helped me also


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Last edited by shovelrick; Mar 20th, 20 at 8:55 AM. Reason: more text
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
Using a solid lifter?
No Vince, .904 diameter 5470 Morel hydraulics, which are about.100 taller than the ones I had in there. Was using Morel hydraulic 4603 lifter before they got gouged up. The checking springs will collapse the lifters, so doing sweeps for length isn't really reliable. That's why measuring pushrods using Scott's 90 degree method does make sense to me.

I rolled the engine over until I was at half lift on the valve. The lifter collapsing doesn't matter at this point because I just wanted to see where the lifter roller tip was on the valve at half lift. The rocker is at 90 degrees at half lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
What rockers are on it now ? Just curious.
Bill, these are Scorpion 1014 1.7 BBC rockers. The original set of silver 1014 rockers had grit in them from the two engine failures that I had, so I sent them back to Scorpion and they replaced them for free.

The Scorpion person that I talked to said that they changed the geometry somewhat from the older silver ones that I did have. My poly lock set screw sits about .200" in the in the hole, so I was concerned. The rockers are sitting on the threads of the stud, so I got the shorter adjustment threaded ARP 235-7205 to replace the 235-7202 that are on it now.

Mike Lewis had a procedure to check the sweep by hand using the piston as a stop for the valve. I have to go look that up before I order push rods. I have to get the roller tip where it needs to be before I order push rods.

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelrick View Post
Mark pick up some Prussian Blue and use checking springs on #1 int. & exh. valves, you really don't have to use the checker springs...
Hahahahaha, 475# open pressure was too much for the adjustable push rod. Yeah, I'm still trying to straiten out the adjuster screw on my adjustable pushrod from checking sweep with the springs in.

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
MarkP is offline  
post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 11:36 AM
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Scott Foxwell
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Bill (William Hennke) and Rick (Shovelrick) have had their turn...now it's mine.

My 502 has the early AFR 305 Magnum heads. I just went through another rebuild because this time the lifters got gouged in the bores. https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...blem-pima.html I spent some time whittling my honey-do list down, and now I have time to put my engine back together. While measuring for pushrods, I noticed that the roller on my rocker isn't centered well enough on the intake. I should probably have back-set rockers of some kind, but what is my best option? I just poured ANOTHER ton of money into this engine, and I want a good solution to try to make it last a little longer than 5,000 miles.

This is a picture of my intake rocker at mid lift. It is pretty far towards the exhaust side, so I think I need to move it back. I don't know if Chris' rockers would move it back far enough or not. I'm sure that he or Scott will chime in.



This is the exhaust side. I think it is close enough to the center. The sweep is always narrow on this valve, so I think it's good.

Rockers are definitely too long. The Straub rockers should take care of your problems here. Also not a big fan of Scorpion rockers these days. We used to sell them but not any more.
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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 2:35 PM
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rick
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Mark you said the checker springs are collapsing the lifters?...what are you using for check springs? I'm using metal bifold door springs from Lowes, I have 450 lb. springs and know what you mean, I had my friend with his air valve tool reinstall my valves but then after I torqued my heads on, pulled the 2 springs back off to change to Straub rockers I'll be doing the pry tool reinstall of the springs...fun fun my Trends came today but my Gson is here so I'm spending some time doing stuff he wants to do, maybe I can talk him into helping Gpa with something


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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 2:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
Rockers are definitely too long. The Straub rockers should take care of your problems here.
I think the exhaust looks pretty good. Would you change those, too?

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
MarkP is offline  
post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 2:51 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelrick View Post
Mark you said the checker springs are collapsing the lifters?...what are you using for check springs?
Comp 4758-2 low tension checking springs. Yeah they collapse quite a bit. Probably about .070".

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
MarkP is offline  
post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 20th, 20, 4:04 PM
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rick
 
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Mark those door springs are about a dollar so maybe give them a try, I had to open the coil a little to fit over the stem seal and top retainer but very easy to do, they didn't push my howards roller lifters down at all, I used solid lifters when I was checking my hyd flat tappet 454 and same check springs, going to check with Prussian blue and the new trend PRs before I put the 450lb springs back on, maybe after a few animated movies we're watching LOL


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