Rocker geometry...my turn - Page 4 - Chevelle Tech
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post #46 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 3:02 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

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AFR's valves and rocker studs aren't in the stock location. You can not use a factory BB Chev stud girdle on AFR's and you can't use an early "S" version AFR stud girdle on a V2.
Well I guess I'm behind the times cocerning AFR heads, because last time I purchased a pair, I don't even remember seeing the term "V2" on their site, so you got me on that one Scott. I'm going to take another look to get a better grasp on what you've pointed out here. Thank you.

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post #47 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 8:45 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Excellent point!

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post #48 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 1:40 PM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

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Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
AFR has moved their rocker studs and valves several times. This is why we're on V2 of their heads. AFR is not going to make their heads based on available rocker arms. That's just silly. There are a lot of factors that go into where a rocker stud goes, especially with canted valves. It's not just arbitrary. One major problem is the pushrod side of the rocker and it's proximity to the valve cover. Not very much wiggle room there at all so you can't just decide to move the rocker away from the valve without causing other problems. The easiest solution is what I did and that's to come up with a rocker that fits the application. When you're trying to do things with a cylinder head that it was never designed to do, you run into these things.
Quoted for truth. Could not get proper geometry on my old AFR heads without a custom rocker and adjustable guideplates.
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post #49 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 2:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
AFR's valves and rocker studs aren't in the stock location. You can not use a factory BB Chev stud girdle on AFR's and you can't use an early "S" version AFR stud girdle on a V2.
It seems as though the new intake rockers form Chris works out well. It is pretty well centered and fairly narrow on the sweep, and I am even able to use my old(er) pushrod.

The exhaust is different though. It appears as though the new intake rocker, when set up on the exhaust, is closer to the center, but it is on the intake side. My Scorpion rocker is a little long towards the exhaust side. Both rockers leave a narrow sweep though.

Question: Is the Straub/Foxwell exhaust rocker slightly longer from trunion to valve tip roller than the Straub/Foxwell intake rocker?

FYI: I have the AFR "S" version, if that makes a difference.

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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
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post #50 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 2:47 PM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
It seems as though the new intake rockers form Chris works out well. It is pretty well centered and fairly narrow on the sweep, and I am even able to use my old(er) pushrod.

The exhaust is different though. It appears as though the new intake rocker, when set up on the exhaust, is closer to the center, but it is on the intake side. My Scorpion rocker is a little long towards the exhaust side. Both rockers leave a narrow sweep though.

Question: Is the Straub/Foxwell exhaust rocker slightly longer from trunion to valve tip roller than the Straub/Foxwell intake rocker?

FYI: I have the AFR "S" version, if that makes a difference.

Mark,
I wont speak for Chris or Scott but the rockers for the exhaust I think are no different that your Scorpions (standard 1.7 ), I saw the same thing with my motor and ended up using the set back(Intakes) on both sides, hopefully if i`m talking out my ear Chris will chime in

Brian

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post #51 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 3:01 PM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
It seems as though the new intake rockers form Chris works out well. It is pretty well centered and fairly narrow on the sweep, and I am even able to use my old(er) pushrod.

The exhaust is different though. It appears as though the new intake rocker, when set up on the exhaust, is closer to the center, but it is on the intake side. My Scorpion rocker is a little long towards the exhaust side. Both rockers leave a narrow sweep though.

Question: Is the Straub/Foxwell exhaust rocker slightly longer from trunion to valve tip roller than the Straub/Foxwell intake rocker?

FYI: I have the AFR "S" version, if that makes a difference.
Yes. The ex rocker is considerably longer than the intake. I think by about .060". That head will be a little different than the V2.

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post #52 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 3:05 PM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Something to note; The rockers I designed for the AFR V2 heads are based on a net lift of .700". If you have a different lift either side of that, your geometry will be different. If you have less lift, your rocker will sit higher on the rocker stud by half the difference in lift. If you have over .700, your rocker will sit lower on the rocker stud by half the difference in lift.
Everything in an engine is a compromise.
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post #53 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 3:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Plus, the 5470 lifters that are in there now are .098" taller than the 4503's that were in there.

Why did I do this to myself!!!!

At .680 lift on the intake and .650 on the exhaust, how long will my pushrods be?

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST

Last edited by MarkP; Mar 27th, 20 at 4:16 PM.
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post #54 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 4:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Plus, the 5470 lifters that are in there now are .098" taller than the 4503's that were in there.
Sorry, 4603's

'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
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Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #55 of 64 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 20, 7:05 PM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
how long will my pushrods be?
The shorter the better.

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post #56 of 64 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 20, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Do you need to use the cam bolt lock plate. I forgot it and have the cover on, but is it better to have it? The old one must have gotten left at the engine guy's place. I can get another one if necessary.



'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #57 of 64 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 20, 12:46 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

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Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Do you need to use the cam bolt lock plate. I forgot it and have the cover on, but is it better to have it? The old one must have gotten left at the engine guy's place. I can get another one if necessary.


If the bolts are torqued you are fine

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post #58 of 64 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 20, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

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If the bolts are torqued you are fine

My elbow popped when I tightened them. Does that count?


I had never saw them, or remembered seeing them used, before my ZZ502, but I thought that it might be important.


Thanks Mike
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'69 Chevelle SS ("NOT" ON THE ROAD NOW!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Bullet HR ADV Dur 295/297 238/242 @ .050 .680/.650-110 LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
T-56 Magnum trans with hydraulic McLeod RST
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post #59 of 64 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 20, 8:00 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
Everything in an engine is a compromise.
That is the best way I've ever heard engine building and design summed up. I'm learning that more and more. There are so many trade-offs. And the more I learn, the more I realize how much I fall short in knowledge.
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post #60 of 64 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 20, 10:30 AM
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Re: Rocker geometry...my turn

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That is the best way I've ever heard engine building and design summed up. I'm learning that more and more. There are so many trade-offs. And the more I learn, the more I realize how much I fall short in knowledge.
Billy,
When I was in my 40s managing a Urethane Processing company I thought I knew everything. As time went on and I sat in meetings with smarter and smarter people I realized something. The more I learned the less I knew. This is very powerful when that realization hits. Remember to ďrealizeĒ is to make it real. It was always there but you just became aware of it!
When you know everything it shuts the mind down to accept and learn new concepts and information.
There are not that many humble people in this world. I get a kick out of it most times. Thinking of politics.
For me it has been very emancipating being humble and able to open my mind and really listen and learn something new every day. My problem is Iíve forgotten more than I know now. Taking notes and documenting helps.
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