454 bottom end - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 9:40 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ca
Posts: 276
454 bottom end

Have a 70s 454 Im going to build. Will be 600hp+ and see 6800rpm. Low budget build except heads heads and valvetrain but already have all the parts for the topend.

2 bolt
Cast crank
Thumb rods

Going to bore block 030.
Should I stud the mains or use the oem bolts?

Polish the crank.

Rebuild the rods or go aftermarket? Scat prostock or Eagle sir.

Forged icon pistons.

Balance the rotating assembly will the stock damper work?

Solid roller.
Afr 305 heads
Rpm intake.
impala is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:03 AM
Senior Tech Team
Scott Foxwell
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 3,999
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by impala View Post
Have a 70s 454 Im going to build. Will be 600hp+ and see 6800rpm. Low budget build except heads heads and valvetrain but already have all the parts for the topend.

2 bolt
Cast crank
Thumb rods

Going to bore block 030.
Should I stud the mains or use the oem bolts?

Polish the crank.

Rebuild the rods or go aftermarket? Scat prostock or Eagle sir.

Forged icon pistons.

Balance the rotating assembly will the stock damper work?

Solid roller.
Afr 305 heads
Rpm intake.
600+ hp and 6800 rpm are not "low budget".
Factory main bolts will work but studs if in the budget. Another alternative is to find a set of Dart main bolts that someone took out of a Dart block.
Cast crank is fine.
Scat ProComp rods are good for 800hp...would be my choice.
Icon pistons are excellent.
I would not use the stock damper. A good SFI Powerbond or Pioneer would be a good choice.
I'd go hyd roller but that's just me. Make sure you use a good quality timing set like a Rollmaster. Not a place to skimp.
One thing to remember...the top end will produce the power and rpm...it won't know what the bottom end looks like below the rings. Build the bottom end to handle the power and rpm the top end will make.
427L88, 68post, impala and 1 others like this.

FOXWELL MOTORSPORTS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
steelcomp is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:05 AM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,603
Re: 454 bottom end

One thing, I'd stud the mains and ensure I had a GREAT windage system for that rpm. Sure it may cost an align hone, but that's no big shakes and the hone wont radically alter centerlines.

Cast crank may be sketchy, but frankly, I've only seen broke forged ones, so...? GM rods are fine.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ca
Posts: 276
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
600+ hp and 6800 rpm are not "low budget".
Factory main bolts will work but studs if in the budget. Another alternative is to find a set of Dart main bolts that someone took out of a Dart block.
Cast crank is fine.
Scat ProComp rods are good for 800hp...would be my choice.
Icon pistons are excellent.
I would not use the stock damper. A good SFI Powerbond or Pioneer would be a good choice.
I'd go hyd roller but that's just me. Make sure you use a good quality timing set like a Rollmaster. Not a place to skimp.
One thing to remember...the top end will produce the power and rpm...it won't know what the bottom end looks like below the rings. Build the bottom end to handle the power and rpm the top end will make.
Only have 2500$ total in the build so far, bought the cam, lifters, bolts, pushrods, intake, heads with rocker arms from a person that needed money very bad.
So pretty low budget for me.

Ok will put studs in it.

Thumbrods is out of the question? ARP bolts and resize?

Scat pro stock is rated 750hp and I can get a set new from same person that sold the top end for very good price.

Will get a good damper and flexplate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
One thing, I'd stud the mains and ensure I had a GREAT windage system for that rpm. Sure it may cost an align hone, but that's no big shakes and the hone wont radically alter centerlines.

Cast crank may be sketchy, but frankly, I've only seen broke forged ones, so...? GM rods are fine.
Will put studs in it, moroso 20408 pan is what I think I will use with a Melling select oil pump.

Doesnt Mark Jones use cast cranks in his 600hp BBCs?
427L88 likes this.
impala is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 11:02 AM
Super Mod
Mr Bill
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Waldorf Md. USA
Posts: 12,495
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by impala View Post
Thumbrods is out of the question? ARP bolts and resize?

By the time you do that you will be close to the price of the new Scat rods plus you will have to pay someone to put the pistons on the rods. The Scat rods are bushed and you can install them yourself.
427L88, 68post and steelcomp like this.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
1984 Buick Riviera - original owner (Wife's car)
Team Chevelle #100
BillK is online now  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 11:42 AM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,133
Re: 454 bottom end

I have had friends in the past use cast cranks for years twisting them to over 7K with big compression on BBC's and never broke any. Same thing with GM rods, they will take a lot of pounding. If my SBC 358 can withstand the punishment of 200hp NOS with a cast crank and GM rods I am sure your BBC will be fine. Just crack check everything, a good balance, studs won't hurt either.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
68Chevele is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 12:32 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Tom
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 168
Re: 454 bottom end

A friend of mine builds race engines in his own shop. A several years ago he decided to take all used parts laying around and put together a 427. 2-bolt main block, forged crank and stock rods 3/8" rods. He does a consistent 6.50 on the 1/8 and spins 7,000 without issues.

Thumb rods are stronger than stock rods, and he did not stud the mains. I would stud the mains and use the thumb rods.
1975TypeS-3 is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 1:27 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 4,456
Re: 454 bottom end

Those heads are gonna want some rpm's with the size of the shortblock under 'em, make sure it can handle the revs.
427L88 and bradley67 like this.

Gary Adrian
Organized people are just too lazy to look for their stuff...
Busted Knuckles is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 2:41 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ca
Posts: 276
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
By the time you do that you will be close to the price of the new Scat rods plus you will have to pay someone to put the pistons on the rods. The Scat rods are bushed and you can install them yourself.
Ok Going to buy the scat rods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles View Post
Those heads are gonna want some rpm's with the size of the shortblock under 'em, make sure it can handle the revs.

The cam is a Comp XR280R on billet core.
impala is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 3:28 PM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,603
Re: 454 bottom end

Good , as you'll want 500+ psi spring on the nose of that thing to rev. Or beehives. I also used Ti retainers on my 427 revver.

Balancers are relatively inexpensive. I ran both a new GMPP and a Powerbond in the 427 ( 7500 rpms) . If it's brand new GMPP, it may be ok. If not, as Scott says. Plus on a 454 the balancer, and flexplate/flywheel are required for a complete balance. They need to stay together if possible, for a while. Go new on both ends, as I did. Don't reuse the balancer unless you know its new, is the point.

PS Mark Jones "mated" the flywheel to the engine. If I break it /replace, the balance will be off, both fore and aft, on two dimensions as he warned me. Also, never asked about the crank steel, although I know it's "chinky" and not GM. AS is my flywheel, as I didnt know, assumed HAYES was "kosher". it aint, its "chinky"

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 4:35 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brownstown,Mi
Posts: 354
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
By the time you do that you will be close to the price of the new Scat rods plus you will have to pay someone to put the pistons on the rods. The Scat rods are bushed and you can install them yourself.
So do you install the Scat rods out of the box without checking anything? Both ends need to be checked and sized to fit. Now you just added dollar$ to the cost of the Scat rods. Thumb rods press-fit pins with Arp wave lock bolts.

92Camaro
92Camaro is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 7:28 PM
Senior Tech Team
Rick
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,697
Re: 454 bottom end

Installing studs should require an align hone. Then your crank clearances will likely need adjusting.
I would just use aftermarket main bolts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mrpaticular is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 9:12 PM
Super Mod
Mr Bill
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Waldorf Md. USA
Posts: 12,495
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Camaro View Post
So do you install the Scat rods out of the box without checking anything?

I don't because I have the means to check them but . . . . . I bet literally thousands of them have been installed that way without any issues. To be honest with you I cant say I have seen a set of Eagle or Scat rods that really needed anything. Sometimes the small end is a little tight depending on the piston pin but otherwise no issues.

Even if you did have to pay someone to check them and maybe touch them up you are still way ahead of the game because you are getting brand new parts.


Scat rods on Summit $349 Brand new rods with 7/16 ARP cap screws.


Pay me to clean, check and resize your stock rods $ 195
ARP 3/8 Wave Lock bolts .......................................$ 73
Install pistons on rods since they are press fit...........$ 80
. . . .................................................. ........... Total $ 348

Plus a lot less money when it comes time to balance because the new rods will only need checking.

No brainer in my opinion,
Wolfplace, steelcomp and engineguy like this.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
1984 Buick Riviera - original owner (Wife's car)
Team Chevelle #100
BillK is online now  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ca
Posts: 276
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpaticular View Post
Installing studs should require an align hone. Then your crank clearances will likely need adjusting.
I would just use aftermarket main bolts.
Ok so you mean arp bolts instead of studs?
If the main is honed, wont it be honed to oem spec? If shouldnt the bearing clearances be ok of crank is in spec?
impala is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 20, 2:10 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Jim
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ca
Posts: 276
Re: 454 bottom end

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
600+ hp and 6800 rpm are not "low budget".
Factory main bolts will work but studs if in the budget. Another alternative is to find a set of Dart main bolts that someone took out of a Dart block.
Cast crank is fine.
Scat ProComp rods are good for 800hp...would be my choice.
Icon pistons are excellent.
I would not use the stock damper. A good SFI Powerbond or Pioneer would be a good choice.
Ok are Dart bolts easy to find? Better than ARP bolts?

ARP bolts vs studs?

https://www.summitracing.com/dom/par...make/chevrolet

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...make/chevrolet

Do I need line honing with ARP bolts? Or just with studs? Are studs much stronger? Or give much better clamping?

Is this damper ok

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...make/chevrolet

Ok flexplate?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-871003

This pistons(I know thinner rings make more power)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic9919-030
impala is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome