468 vs 496 - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

 147Likes
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 3:34 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 263
As far as a street/strip motor, which one do you feel would be better with a manual transmission? Especially in the 1/4 mile? I know the longer stroke of the 496 will be more torquey but will it be able to wind as high of an RPM as a 468 would when drag racing? Or would a 496 feel like a fast truck??

70 Chevelle SS454
454, 3964291 Heads, Manley Race Flo valves, Crane Valvetrain, 226/236 dur, 534/553 lift
Holley 750, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Accel ignition,
TCI TH400 B&M 3000 stall, 3.73 posi, Lakewood traction bars.
budsthe3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 3:47 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 616
Re: 468 vs 496

Quote:
Originally Posted by budsthe3 View Post
As far as a street/strip motor, which one do you feel would be better with a manual transmission? Especially in the 1/4 mile? I know the longer stroke of the 496 will be more torquey but will it be able to wind as high of an RPM as a 468 would when drag racing? Or would a 496 feel like a fast truck??
They both can rev to whatever you want. It just costs money.

I have had my 489 at 7200 before, just because I was out of gear on a high speed run at a local track.

I would opt for the extra cubes.

If you are worried about it feeling like a fast truck why not build a small block since only those can rev high
pannetron likes this.
tacomatrd is offline  
post #3 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 4:05 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Tom
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Firestone, CO
Posts: 1,324
Re: 468 vs 496

If they're built the same with stroke being the only difference, the only difference you will feel is more power with the bigger engine.

There have been tests where engines were built identical except different bore and stroke combos. Like one had a bigger bore and shorter stroke and one with longer stroke and smaller bore but both coming out close to same displacement. Same heads, cam, intake, exhaust, etc. It was concluded that it basically didn't matter how you arrived at the displacement if everything else was the same. Both engines made the same power at the same RPMs. Turns out the heads and cam have the most influence on the attitude of the engine.

70 Camino...Roller

69 Malibu Stock 307, Reverse Manual TH350, 4,500 Stall Edge Converter, 4.56 Spool 35 Spline 12 Bolt

76 C20 VortecPro 496 628HP 655 lb/ft TH400 Edge Converter, 4.10 14 bolt
Tommy the Cat is offline  
 
post #4 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 4:44 PM
Senior Tech Team
kevin
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Smiths Station, Alabama
Posts: 2,261
Re: 468 vs 496

FWIW...my 496 revs like a small block. congrats to the engineer or racer who came up with this stroker combo...
the heckler is offline  
post #5 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 4:49 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Under the hood of some musclecar
Posts: 28,174
Re: 468 vs 496

Quote:
Originally Posted by budsthe3 View Post
Or would a 496 feel like a fast truck??

Simply stated-NO
blue_69_malibu likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mr 4 speed is offline  
post #6 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 5:04 PM
Team Member
Ed
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Marietta, Ga.,USA
Posts: 3,383
Garage
Re: 468 vs 496

My 496 feels like a fast truck - in my 65 ElCamino! Torque is always fun, but it'll rev to whatever you set the heads and cam up to do.
mr 4 speed likes this.

OLDED - It's STOCK if it's made by GM and it fits!

*65 Elky, Gen VI 496 BBC, TH400
*59 Vette, 283/270 hp. T5 5 spd., 4:11 posi.
*Harley - 06 Street Bob
*Life Member - Team Chevelle & Team ElCamino
*Peach State Chevelle Member
*Retired June 1, 2014****
OLDED is offline  
post #7 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 5:16 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,059
Re: 468 vs 496

build as big as you can. The old "but short stroke engines like to rev'so WHAT. They have to in order to go anywhere and still dont have any torque.
I was never more disappointed than the day I went for a ride in a crossram 302...one of the slowest cars Ive been in outside a 73 vette.
Bought a 70 with a well worked over Lt1 much happier.

Most days happy with this 383 that revs fine..others I want that brutal big block torque less gear etc.
blue_69_malibu likes this.

Quote:
This post is a duplicate of a post that you have posted in the last five minutes.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cuisinartvette is offline  
post #8 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 6:45 PM
Senior Tech Team
Rick
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,443
Re: 468 vs 496

I was in the same spot 4 years ago 467 or 489 in my 69'. I wanted to run the 1/4 or 1/8 mile also. With the limited room for tires I went with 467 to reduce torque. I could not be happier, It will dead hook at the track and runs like I stole it. On the street none are good at traction. What are your block, crank, rods, compression and pistons? You will need to move up a step or 2 on the cam.
blue_69_malibu likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mrpaticular is offline  
post #9 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 7:13 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Tom
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Firestone, CO
Posts: 1,324
Re: 468 vs 496

Since the subject of truck engines was brought up in relation to long strokes let's not forget that all the GM tall-deck truck engines were 366s and 427s with 3.76" strokes. They could've easily used a 4"or 4.25" so why didn't they? Maybe the theory of long stroke=low RPM "truck" engine doesn't prove out in real life. I imagine the engineers at GM might know a bit about what's best in what application.

But carry on with the old rhetoric of "short stroke=no torque and high RPMs and long stroke=big torque and won't rev" if you prefer.

70 Camino...Roller

69 Malibu Stock 307, Reverse Manual TH350, 4,500 Stall Edge Converter, 4.56 Spool 35 Spline 12 Bolt

76 C20 VortecPro 496 628HP 655 lb/ft TH400 Edge Converter, 4.10 14 bolt
Tommy the Cat is offline  
post #10 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 7:27 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kapaa Kauai Hawaii
Posts: 9,393
Re: 468 vs 496

If the combination is right it will be very responsive. This is a 4.375 stroke BBC from Mike.

https://youtu.be/TTN8nCaUw44
77 cruiser and 1966Chev like this.

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE POWER..... AND IF YOU USE THAT POWER BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Mike Lewis street 572

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Cale Aronson
Black Magic clutches

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Cam by UDHarold
Menscer Motorsports

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

TRZ

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CEAutoelectric

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
aukai is offline  
post #11 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 19, 8:24 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 74
I have to agree. I’ve had my 489 to 8k on a missed 2/3 shift and routinely shift 2/3at 6600 to get the drop back I need. It was tuned to 6800 on the dyno. Making more than a dozen pulls. It’s all about what’s on top of the block, rather than what’s below it stroke wise. I’m still in disbelief that my 489 revs cleaner and higher than a lot of my friends running sbc. All while holding a nice flat power band. There’s some guys on the board straub that definitely seem to know the tricks to valve train cam set up. I would be thinking more about traction than anything. Seems to still be my major problem. 6 months ago all I wanted was rpm and hp. Now all I want is traction and good seat belts. Best of luck you’ll be happy either way. Particulars car is one bad street mobile.
71malibuu is offline  
post #12 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 19, 8:22 AM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,371
Re: 468 vs 496

I opted for a professionally built 467 that equals or exceeds anything I could have done with off the shelf 496 parts. https://vortecpro454.com/

Shifted the 427 at 6800+ rpm, this beast is limited to 6200 rpm and its WAY faster. Street tires are useless at WOT come to find out.

M23Z 4 speed and 3.31s rear gear.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #13 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 19, 9:51 AM
Senior Tech Team
Scott Foxwell
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N/E Tennessee
Posts: 3,768
Re: 468 vs 496

If you want to talk about real "race" engines, neither are anywhere near optimal. There are huge differences in the way either engine will make power and how to go about it but based on cubic inches alone the 496 is going to make more power, all said and done. I've made well over 800 with a 467 and made 900 with an almost identically built 496. Both had compression, both had tunnel ram carbs, both had Canfield heads, both even had the same Dan Olson oil pans. The 467 had a vac pump, the 496 did not. Both made peak power above 7000rpm. The bore dia. is the restriction bot both engines. When you start adding bore, I tend to favor the 4" stroke and the longer rod for a purely race, n/a build and even a good running street pump gas engine. Our ZZ532 (4.60 x 4.0) is a very efficient, very good running platform that we haven't really even scratched the surface of it's potential. Add the 1/4" stroke and you get a 565 which is a very well proven combination as well. It's mostly in how you go about looking at the combination, understanding the requirements and limitations of each, and building accordingly. Increasing stroke, with no increase in rod length, shortens the rod/stroke ratio and brings negatives to the table. Very few advantages to a shorter rod/stroke ratio but it's usually done in the name of displacement. If the gains of the displacement outweigh the negatives of the shorter ratio, then it can be a win. This is why we usually see an increase in rod length with an increase in stroke...to offset those negatives. Just one of those things to consider when building an engine.

FOXWELL MOTORSPORTS
Straub Technologies

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
steelcomp is online now  
post #14 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 19, 10:00 AM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,032
Re: 468 vs 496

What’s your goal with the car? What’s it going in? How quick do you want it to run? How high do you think you need to spin the motor to accomplish your desired ET and mph?

Steve R
blue_69_malibu likes this.

Last edited by Steve R; Oct 25th, 19 at 10:01 AM. Reason: X
Steve R is online now  
post #15 of 97 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 19, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve R View Post
What’s your goal with the car? What’s it going in? How quick do you want it to run? How high do you think you need to spin the motor to accomplish your desired ET and mph?

Steve R
I'm bringing in my 454 shortblock to a reputable machine shop for a rebuild, but if the block doesn't check out okay, I was considering going with a crate motor. Probably the vortecpro, just looking at his 467s and 496s in his website. Just curious if there's any difference on the way they run due to the different strokes. I want to get the car to run in the mid to high 11's with a properly set up suspension in a 70 Chevelle full weight car, m22, and 3.73 rear with a 28" rear tire

70 Chevelle SS454
454, 3964291 Heads, Manley Race Flo valves, Crane Valvetrain, 226/236 dur, 534/553 lift
Holley 750, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Accel ignition,
TCI TH400 B&M 3000 stall, 3.73 posi, Lakewood traction bars.
budsthe3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome