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post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 1:17 AM
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Re: Oh so close!

FWIW, I think peak power should be closer to 5800 than 5500 RPM.

Also, you COULD take a look at some of VortecPro's videos on YouTube or follow some of the documented builds that Straub and Foxwell have shared on this Site, pay extra attention to what size cam they used and which valve springs they used.....and then reverse engineer your motor or cam selection from them.

'69 Malibu 383/TCI TH350/8.2 3.36 Eaton Posi. Street Edge 10" 2800, E-Tec 170s, Custom Mike Jones HR Cam, RPM Air-Gap, StreetAvenger 770, Pertronix HEI, Hedman 1 5/8" Headers, Moser Axles, PMT 1320R Kit. [email protected] 111 MPH, 1.6865 60 ft, Nitto 555
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post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 8:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
That summit cam had 238-248 duration I think and that much more exhaust duration allowed more overlap even with the wider LSA so that would reduce the vacuum reading.


I tok 2 cams had them ground with the same masters both had the same intake closing point but one had 106LSA and the other was 112LSA exhaust lobe was the only one moved.


Cranking pressure remained the same but vacuum came up 2 inches with the 112 LSA cam.
MPG also came up 6 MPG better.. Odd thing was same HP at the same RPM.. but after the Peak of 5700 rpm the 112LSA fell off rapidly.


Most cam grinds move the intake and exhaust lobes to get the wider LSA but I had to experiment with some other deal you know.
The 106LSA cam would pull to 7000 rpm without nosing over and the 112 would nose over at 6000. The tiny cam was [email protected] .050 the old comp high energy lobes. Sure needed the overlap to help those old iron heads scavenge.

Fun stuff.
Interesting that the 112 LSA would kill that much power on the top end. I think I'd like to stay with 110 at a minimum because I am running EFI.

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post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 8:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_69_malibu View Post
FWIW, I think peak power should be closer to 5800 than 5500 RPM.

Also, you COULD take a look at some of VortecPro's videos on YouTube or follow some of the documented builds that Straub and Foxwell have shared on this Site, pay extra attention to what size cam they used and which valve springs they used.....and then reverse engineer your motor or cam selection from them.
That's a good idea

I say 5500 because I think my heads and spring are only good to about 6000 rpm max. Plus how much I drive in the 2500-3500 range, I think it's a decent compromise. Even I only gained 10 hp peak to peak, I could gain 30 hp in the 5500-6000 range.

This is all assuming I even get a new camshaft.

Right now my mind is thinking about free power and free weight loss.

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post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 9:38 PM
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
Right now my mind is thinking about free power and free weight loss.
When it comes to old cars and pretty women, nothing is ever free.
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post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 10:26 PM
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
That's a good idea

I say 5500 because I think my heads and spring are only good to about 6000 rpm max. Plus how much I drive in the 2500-3500 range, I think it's a decent compromise. Even I only gained 10 hp peak to peak, I could gain 30 hp in the 5500-6000 range.

This is all assuming I even get a new camshaft.

Right now my mind is thinking about free power and free weight loss.
There is only so much you can do with timing and fuel calibration. I different cam would make a huge difference.

What is your exhaust system front to back?

Do you run a 1" open spacer on the intake?

Last edited by pockets; Oct 10th, 19 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Additional questions
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post #51 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pockets View Post
There is only so much you can do with timing and fuel calibration. I different cam would make a huge difference.

What is your exhaust system front to back?

Do you run a 1" open spacer on the intake?
2" primary Hooker headers (I think 2455s)
3" all the way to back with H pipe
Hooker aerochamber mufflers

1" open spacer

Plenum divider cut down and some plenum blending done.

Only things I can do to free up power now are electric fans and electric water pump, which isn't a good bang for the buck.

I really should just go for a set of aluminum heads and cam. I really wanted to save money to build the engine I really want, but that might be a pipe dream.

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post #52 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 19, 11:22 PM
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Re: Oh so close!

Chris,

From what I've read, the clutch tamer is cheap and easy to install.

And it's very needed when using drag radials and a stick.

It's what I'm going to use because I don't want to use bias-ply slicks.

Would love to see you install one and report back.

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post #53 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
Chris,

From what I've read, the clutch tamer is cheap and easy to install.

And it's very needed when using drag radials and a stick.

It's what I'm going to use because I don't want to use bias-ply slicks.

Would love to see you install one and report back.
That is the likely route I'll be going, and almost certainly would be a hydraulic version. There are a few options out there. I will be certain to document the install and trials.

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post #54 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 1:27 AM
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If you don’t have tapered collector reducers like those from flowmaster, that could gain you a bit of power, as well as x pipe over the H pipe.
If you don’t have a thermostatic clutch fan that alone is worth 20-30 hp on the engine.

If you bolted on a set of AFR265’s, which you could use in the future for up to a 496/700hp build, you would see an easy 50hp gain. And that would be without a cam change They are worth the money.
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post #55 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 1:49 AM
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Couple things to mention after trying to increase my times.

Steel flywheel, I know you road race and are partial to the aluminum but a steel flywheel will yield quicker 60ft and more consistent launch. Hopefully lower your launch rpm so that you don’t kill parts

Aluminum flywheel with a rxt, not disrespecting but your clutch combo and race weight you do not yield enough torque to muscle it from a dig. Hell even my 502 NA setup never did at 3800lbs(no driver) and single disk. You need to build a slipper clutch.

Slipper clutch can be done by means of a clutch tamer OR a regulator in your hydraulic system. A regulator that can go to 100% shut off is what you want. Wilwood only does 55%. Regulator really lets you dial your car in, especially for changes in weight, power, track conditions, tires, etc.

Drag radials at a 11’s or slower level with stick shifts are not your problem. A lot of people blame the tire but honestly my opinion is it will be something else.

I remember saying the same thing at drag week/race week and Most told me “you will be surprised at what it takes to get a 4100lbs car to run 12, 11, 10, & 9’s.”

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post #56 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 1:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

For this engine I'd probably do Brodix Race Rite 270's. Flow great, stock height exhaust ports, and about $1000 cheaper than AFR's.

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post #57 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 2:24 AM
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Wink Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_69_malibu View Post

When it comes to old cars and pretty women, nothing is ever free.


And especially when it's old men in old cars...
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post #58 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 3:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFast Beaumont View Post
Couple things to mention after trying to increase my times.

Steel flywheel, I know you road race and are partial to the aluminum but a steel flywheel will yield quicker 60ft and more consistent launch. Hopefully lower your launch rpm so that you dont kill parts

Aluminum flywheel with a rxt, not disrespecting but your clutch combo and race weight you do not yield enough torque to muscle it from a dig. Hell even my 502 NA setup never did at 3800lbs(no driver) and single disk. You need to build a slipper clutch.

Slipper clutch can be done by means of a clutch tamer OR a regulator in your hydraulic system. A regulator that can go to 100% shut off is what you want. Wilwood only does 55%. Regulator really lets you dial your car in, especially for changes in weight, power, track conditions, tires, etc.

Drag radials at a 11s or slower level with stick shifts are not your problem. A lot of people blame the tire but honestly my opinion is it will be something else.

I remember saying the same thing at drag week/race week and Most told me you will be surprised at what it takes to get a 4100lbs car to run 12, 11, 10, & 9s.
I run a billet steel clutch. The McLeod 22#, which is really 24.5 lbs.

I think inducing slip in the clutch is the only way I'll consistently launch this car with a drag radial and twin disc ceramic clutch.
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post #59 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 12:46 PM
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
For this engine I'd probably do Brodix Race Rite 270's. Flow great, stock height exhaust ports, and about $1000 cheaper than AFR's.
That cost difference can be a lot closer if you order from the right place. The AFR will work with your single pattern cam, and make a solid 10 hp and trq through the rev range over the race rites. Larger difference above 5500 rpm of 20hp in most cases. As for the exhaust port height, normal headers will still fit fine. My ARH fit the AFR 265 no issues.

Race Rite 270's need a large duration split because of the poor intake/exhaust flow ratio. Therefore if you were to put them on with the cam you have, you won't gain even close to the power you would with just bolting on the AFR265. Just saying!
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post #60 of 69 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 19, 3:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Oh so close!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pockets View Post
That cost difference can be a lot closer if you order from the right place. The AFR will work with your single pattern cam, and make a solid 10 hp and trq through the rev range over the race rites. Larger difference above 5500 rpm of 20hp in most cases. As for the exhaust port height, normal headers will still fit fine. My ARH fit the AFR 265 no issues.

Race Rite 270's need a large duration split because of the poor intake/exhaust flow ratio. Therefore if you were to put them on with the cam you have, you won't gain even close to the power you would with just bolting on the AFR265. Just saying!
I was thinking about it last night. If I get new heads, I'll be pulling the motor, which means I'd freshen it up. Guaranteed it'd open a can of worms that could lead to at the very least new bearings, but perhaps even new pistons. If I get new pistons, I sure would like 6.385 rods.

Good heads need the right cam, if I saved $1000 by going Brodix, hell I could put a Hyd roller in it. Regardless of heads, I believe in lightweight valvetrain so I'd be going with tool steel or titanium retainers. I'd hope I could reuse the ones I have on my car now.

Free flowing heads don't get maximized with a restrictive intake, so I'd have to pick up an RPM Air-Gap.

So my $2000 upgrade could come out to a $5000 bill.
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