Fuel engine questions 555 ???? - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 6:43 PM Thread Starter
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Arrow Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Thanks for any suggestions and help in advance.
Nelson

I am thinking of having a 555 standard deck built for my 71 Chevelle convertible. I am wanting something that will run on 91-92 octane, does not have to have high compression and not run high RPM to build power. I also want to keep my cowl induction setup.
I do not want to change my fuel tank or stainless stock size lines. My question is can my stock fuel lines feed the 555 or what is the largest CI I can safely run. Is seems to be about the same money to go Big CI.
I am displeased with my 496 as it only put down 365 @ the rear wheels. It has a lot of good parts and I am not opposed to using some of the parts to build the new one.

Maybe reuse these parts:
Intake edelbrock RPM
Heads Brodix aluminum RR ovals 270cc. 119cc Intake 2.250'' / Exhaust 1.880''
Lifter Lunati Hyd roller 72431
Rocker arm Crane gold roller 1.7
7/16 custom push rods
MSD 8360
Timing set Cloyes Quick Button Two-Piece & Torrington roller chain
Moroso oil pan 20403 scraper screen installed
Aluminum water pump

.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 7:15 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

What cam is in your 496 and what compression? With 20% valvetrain loss, you're ony at 456hp. That's anemic even for a 454, particularly with those heads. There's no reason that 496 shouldn't make 650hp at the flywheel, 500hp+ to the tires. I'd address the problems with the current engine before I spent the coin on a 555. You should have a tire fryer that will run 10's with good suspension and sticky tires.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 7:37 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Id be pulling the engine out and put it on a reputable engine dyno before doing anything. Find out what power the engine is making now. Because if the problem is in the car, the 555 will perform worse.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 7:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

I don't see what the car would make problems. Anyway to answer the other questions.

Crank Scat 4340 forged 4.250 stroker crank
Rods Eagle ESP heavy duty 6.385
Pistons KB Hypereutectic flat top, compression with 119cc is 8.75 to 1
Cam Lunati Hyd roller 60211 575_ 575 221 _ 229 112 @50
Lifter Lunati Hyd roller 72431


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 8:34 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Swap pistons out for some domes to bump compression to about 10.5:1 and add a real cam, something in the 230-236 range. Your current build left a lot of power on the table.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 8:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

I was wanting to just swap something out so the car does not set while I wait on the machine shop.
I think the forged piston requires more piston to wall clearance than a Hypereutectic? correct. I guess that way it could be honed for the new forged pistons.
Harold and I talked, decided on this cam but I was on the cautious side of a large cam and I wanted my power brakes to work. Two mistakes I made was pistons and cam..


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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 10:32 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Clearance is built into the piston, not the bore. Visit with the machine shop - they'll have bobweight that the crank was balanced to and will know what it needs with new pistons. Do a little research on here and you'll find out how much cam you can get away with and keep power brakes.
Good luck, you already have a great basis, just needs some upgrades.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 6:20 AM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmanf1 View Post
I don't see what the car would make problems.
Simple if the car has fuel delivery problems, air inlet problems, exhaust problems, or 200 hp parasitic losses through the drivetrain it can make any engine appear like crap on a chassis dyno. So if you try to put more hp in a car that cant get the air/fuel in or out or hp to the ground now, you will be disappointed even more later.

Ray


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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 6:59 AM
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You’d be far better off fixing your 496. Typical 555 costs quite a bit vs. changing cam and pistons. Even with the low compression you’re leaving power on the table.
Bump compression to 10.5:1, put the correct hydraulic roller in, and you’ll have more power than you know what to do with.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 8:16 AM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Youd be far better off fixing your 496. Typical 555 costs quite a bit vs. changing cam and pistons. Even with the low compression youre leaving power on the table.
Bump compression to 10.5:1, put the correct hydraulic roller in, and youll have more power than you know what to do with.
This ^^^^^^

66 chevelle
New Combo
555
10.2 comp
Straub ProMaxx heads
Straub solid roller
TH400/373
3815lbs
1.31 60'
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 8:33 AM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

221/[email protected] is a very small cam for a 496,IMHO and experience.
There is a particular Isky hyd. roller that specs at 238/[email protected] 110 and would compliment those Brodix heads well. And put down some increased HP/TQ


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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 4:54 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Nelson, my last 427 was garage built by yours truly, 515 at crank, the next 454 is being done by a consummate pro, 580- 600 at the crank. He gets near 700 out of the 4.25" stuff. So I dont know who assembled the engine, but even with a too small cam, I am surprised and would also be disappointed. But a 555 is useless. Truly, unless you really just want to brag about size. Don't!

AS mr 4 speed and others have said, get a real cam in there #1. That ISKY is fine, but at this point, you may find the small extra expense ($100) of a custom grind from Chris Straub will at least get the valve events optimized as the engine sits now. I bet you gain all of 50 RWHP with a custom cam. More than that will require more effort, to include a reassembly of the engine to produce 700 hp, which folks like Mark Jones and Mike Lewis do all the time. You'll dump the cast slugs and used domed forged to be sure, so now we're talking some money.

Fuel pressure was good during the dyno pull?


PS My new 467, with the next size smaller cam idles at 750 rpm and has more than enough vacuum to run brakes. So even the 238/248 on a 111 lsa ought be fine.

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 19, 4:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Thank you all very much for all the info.

I have collected NOS parts for years, spent a lot of time and money on this car. I hate that I even need to pull the engine.
I just figure that if I have to take it to a machine shop it will be months to get it back.
I am just so flustered with the engine and that is why I was going to swap it out..
I don't know what to do at this point. I was so mad I was ready to put the numbers matching 402 back in it.

I was thinking if I could buy a new short block I could use most of my bolt on items and order a cam / springs from Chris.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 19, 9:42 AM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Redmanf1, and not just any machine shop. There is a HUGE variance in quality and expertise even amongst the "experts". I have no doubt in my military mind, none, that some of the bonafide experts here, Mark Jones in Colorado Springs, Mike Lewis in Northern CA, Carl in NY, Bill in MD, Chris in TN, etc.... can take your parts and reconstruct it into a 700 hp monster.

Me, I might just order a new HR cam from Chris, do the swap. I think that one move, unless there are issues in overall assembly, will net you a HUGE gain in RWHP. It wont be cheap as you may need springs and lifters. BTW, swapping springs while head is on engine is pretty easy with apiece of ignition wire ( or rope), and a Lisle on head spring compressor. A mag-tip machinists scribe also makes it easy to catch the locks.

And you may get lucky and only have to swap out the bumpstick. Straub will advise you.

Brother, our on-board experts can make the same, if not more , power from your 402 ( with the factory heads in Jones' case) , so you have every right to be sadly disappointed.

Call Chris Straub, he'll advise you as to whether a simple cam swap will get you where you want to be or not. I'm sure he'll tighten up the centers, etc,. to give that 8.75:1 all the cylinder pressure possible.

That's my read. The cylinders arent filling properly. Valve event issue. Call the pro cam guy and explore. You may have that bad boy all "narly and snotty" in a weekend for less than $500. Best case, but worth exploring.

Guaranteed result, put the 402 back in, enjoy it,and send the parts to a BONAFIDE rat expert for re-assembly.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 19, 4:47 PM
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Re: Fuel engine questions 555 ????

Sir what us the stock stainless fuel line size 5/16 or 3/8? What do you have for fuel pump? You could very well see not great results because your fuel system and induction have been maxed out? Most cars with the stock style 3/8 fuel lines seem to max out about 600 horsepower. Have you tried running without the air cleaner cowl induction assembly on the car? What did the guys at Livernois say when you did your pulls. I would like into fuel air intake stuff. If they are ok do a compression check and leak down. There is something definitely off with the motor to the tune of at least 100 horsepower even with your cam and compression. That 496 should be about 575 to 600 horsepower with your parts. You never said what carb either? There are a lot of good guys around the Detroit area too you should be talking to. Livernois being one of them. Also Holbrook Billy Briggs Fasting.

RH
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