From an engine builder that was willing to learn... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 4:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

This is posted in a private group on FB that has over 500 members that are professional engine builders across the world. This engine builder did not get the Morels from me, but bought them from another distributor. In his post you read they were noisy. He made the effort to reach out to me and gave him the info that I have learned over the years. You can read his customers results.....

The other day I posted about hydraulic roller lifters making noise and not working right the we're Morels street rollers. Customer and Dyno guy wanted new lifters but I made a call to Chris Straub and he educated me on lifters. Told me all about centistokes and oil sent me a list of oils to use. So I had Dyno guy switch from Brad Penn 10W30 to Castro GTX 10W30 he said I wouldn't work got a call after they made couple pulls it was quiet as could be. They made couple more tuned it job done customer wanted to hear it next day cold start no noise. I've learned you can't know everything but you can know who to call when in a jam thanks again Chris Straub for the talk and to this group for all the smart helpful guys.

Just because someone says they been doing it for 40 years doesn't mean they know everything. If your not willing to learn something new each day, your not doing yourself a favor and you sure as hell not doing your customers a favor. Hell we were told the Earth was flat for 1400 years and we would fall off the edge!!!!!
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Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts

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Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 4:32 PM
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Mr Bill
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

So Chris,

What exactly has changed in the last 5 years or so that has made it necessary to run a particular type of oil in the Morel hydraulic roller lifters ? The first BBC Hydraulic roller engine I built was over 20 years ago and had a fairly large cam and spring pressures comparable to what we are still running today. It was an all iron 540 with a B&M 420 blower for a boat. I dynoed that engine with 15W40 Mobil1 and never had an issue. We used the Crane lifters for many years until they went under/changed hands. Same deal, did not matter what type of oil you used. Then I started using the Morels that PBM was selling, probably 7 or 8 years ago ? Never had a problem. 15W40 in the boat engines and 10w30 in the cars. Any brand, synthetic or non synthetic. Morel was the only thing I would use.

Then BAM, all of a sudden noise issues started cropping up. What changed ? Something had to have changed in the manufacturing / material end of the product. Guys that had been using the Morel lifters for years didn't suddenly change the way they were building engines. There has to be a scientific explanation for the problem.

I am certainly glad you helped the one guy out but to be honest with you I dont think we should have to change the type of oil we have been using with the same lifters for years. Something has changed !!

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


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Last edited by BillK; Jul 23rd, 19 at 3:57 PM.
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 4:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
So Chris,

What exactly has changed in the last 5 years or so that has made it necessary to run a particular type of oil in the Morel hydraulic roller lifters ? The first BBC Hydraulic roller engine I built was over 20 years ago and had a fairly large cam and spring pressures comparable to what we are still running today. It was an all iron 540 with a B&M 450 blower for a boat. I dynoed that engine with 15W40 Mobil1 and never had an issue. We used the Crane lifters for many years until they went under/changed hands. Same deal, did not matter what type of oil you used. Then I started using the Morels that PBM was selling, probably 7 or 8 years ago ? Never had a problem. 15W40 in the boat engines and 10w30 in the cars. Any brand, synthetic or non synthetic. Morel was the only thing I would use.

Then BAM, all of a sudden noise issues started cropping up. What changed ? Something had to have changed in the manufacturing / material end of the product. Guys that had been using the Morel lifters for years didn't suddenly change the way they were building engines. There has to be a scientific explanation for the problem.

I am certainly glad you helped the one guy out but to be honest with you I dont think we should have to change the type of oil we have been using with the same lifters for years. Something has changed !!
The tighter the tolerance the more rpm. Look at the centistoke on the oils of the pushrod V-8's coming out of Detroit now with hyd roller cam profiles.

Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts

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Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 7:31 PM
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Lang
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

centistoke.....I had to look that up....Never heard the term before....No more just dump any brand 10w30 in and go...crazy.

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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 8:02 PM
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

We haven't heard the end of this...
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 8:06 PM
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Mr Bill
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Chris,
Can you explain in mechanical terms how a tighter tolerance would make a lifter noisier when used with different oils ? I would think that tighter tolerances would lessen the possibility of the lifter bleeding down and causing noise, not the other way around. You still have not answered the question of what has changed ? I am not trying to be argumentative, I just want to understand the mechanics of the problem.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 10:25 PM
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Chris,

Can you please post your preferred list of oils this guy was talking about? Were they synthetic or conventional?

Thanks
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 22nd, 19, 10:39 PM
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

I was going to run Mobil 1 15W-40 , but should we be changing to the thinner stuff ?

All 2019 Corvettes will now feature Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0W-40 synthetic motor oil as the new factory-fill.

https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2018...-40-motor-oil/

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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 5:56 AM
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Brian
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Everyday is a school day. No one knows it all even if they think they do.
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 6:31 AM
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
So Chris,

What exactly has changed in the last 5 years or so that has made it necessary to run a particular type of oil in the Morel hydraulic roller lifters ? The first BBC Hydraulic roller engine I built was over 20 years ago and had a fairly large cam and spring pressures comparable to what we are still running today. It was an all iron 540 with a B&M 450 blower for a boat. I dynoed that engine with 15W40 Mobil1 and never had an issue. We used the Crane lifters for many years until they went under/changed hands. Same deal, did not matter what type of oil you used. Then I started using the Morels that PBM was selling, probably 7 or 8 years ago ? Never had a problem. 15W40 in the boat engines and 10w30 in the cars. Any brand, synthetic or non synthetic. Morel was the only thing I would use.

Then BAM, all of a sudden noise issues started cropping up. What changed ? Something had to have changed in the manufacturing / material end of the product. Guys that had been using the Morel lifters for years didn't suddenly change the way they were building engines. There has to be a scientific explanation for the problem.

I am certainly glad you helped the one guy out but to be honest with you I dont think we should have to change the type of oil we have been using with the same lifters for years. Something has changed !!
I have to agree what Bill is saying something has changed, When a HYD lifter is noisy at an 1/8 to a 1/4 turn down something is wrong and more adjustment its not an anti-pump up lifter and in the case of valve float will increase the chance of piston to valve contact. IMHO it would be interesting to see if Morel is farming some of their work out to China, Mexico or where ever when you see endless complaints on Noisy Morel lifters.

I have gone to Johnson lifters as some of my customer don't like being restricted to certain oils because of the brand of lifters.

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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 7:19 AM
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Jeff
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

-I have had trouble with Brad Penn oil in two different flat tappet engines. It foams up then the lifters make all kinds of noise. I switched to Mobil 1 and all is well..
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 7:24 AM
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Gene
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Same reason I get an annoying "at rest" squeal at rpm when using EBC brake pads and coated Chicom rotors? Its a weird metallurgy thing. How interesting. I'm assuming my new bullet will have Morels. Will the VR-1 10-30 be fine?

Gene
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 7:53 AM
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Rick
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Different oils can make a difference in non roller engines. Noise and different pressure readings with same weight. Casteroil was better than QS in the 1980's


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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 7:57 AM
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Rick
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

Is VR-1, 20w50 good for anything anymore ????
I used it in flat tappet small blocks for years with no negative issues.
In my new solid lifter BB, the builder recommends straight 30w.
So far great pressure, almost no noise and low water temps.
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Unread Jul 23rd, 19, 8:02 AM
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Rick
 
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Re: From an engine builder that was willing to learn...

A couple years ago I talked with an oil engineer that worked for Chrysler. Oils that help make the hi po hemis live. He was so full of info I had a hard time but he repeated when I asked. In the end it does matter what oil you use.


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