MSD 6530 boost retard question - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 6:51 AM Thread Starter
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Kevin
 
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
...
Keep in mind rotor phasing is very important when you are dealing with this.
and this thread:
https://www.racingjunk.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=20289
on the advance/retard limits of this system.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 9:08 AM
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

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Originally Posted by flht01 View Post
With the map sensor the software is able to build a curve using any vacuum values you want. So if you’re running a cam that isn’t creating a lot of vacuum you can still build a curve for it. At least that’s my take on it. You can also set the number of degrees you want added.


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Agreed, the map sensor/software allows for easy accurate adjusts.
But they also make adjustable vacuum cans and limiting stops, to deal with low vacuum situations.

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 11:37 AM
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

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Originally Posted by Greg Owens View Post
The MSD Graph View software for the MSD 6530 will not ever add timing. It can only retard timing. The MAP based curve is boost retard. It can only remove timing under boost. It cannot add timing under vacuum. So if you are naturally aspirated there is no reason to add the MAP sensor.

At least that is the case with the version I have but it is 5+ years old. They may have changed it.

You can technically add timing. Even with EFI and coil on plugs when you "add" timing, you are technically only removing retard. So with the 6530 you essentially set the pickup to run the most timing you will ever want to run. So if it likes a cruise of 45°, but most everywhere else you want to be 34-35, you setup the 0 point at 45 and always run 11° of retard. Then when you want to "add" timing with the MAP based strategy, you are simply removing retard to "add".

If you upgrade to a crab cap, you have a pretty big window of advance/retard to play with.


Even with a small cap we have used 24° of timing swing 38° to 14° and the 14° is during boost and wot trying to help manage traction.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 11:40 AM
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

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Originally Posted by LaVelle View Post
Agreed, the map sensor/software allows for easy accurate adjusts.
But they also make adjustable vacuum cans and limiting stops, to deal with low vacuum situations.
I really say this nicely, but I think you are missing the entire point of going to a box like a 6530.

My guess is that you have never actually played with the software to see exactly what it can do.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 3:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
You can technically add timing. Even with EFI and coil on plugs when you "add" timing, you are technically only removing retard. So with the 6530 you essentially set the pickup to run the most timing you will ever want to run. So if it likes a cruise of 45°, but most everywhere else you want to be 34-35, you setup the 0 point at 45 and always run 11° of retard. Then when you want to "add" timing with the MAP based strategy, you are simply removing retard to "add".

If you upgrade to a crab cap, you have a pretty big window of advance/retard to play with.


Even with a small cap we have used 24° of timing swing 38° to 14° and the 14° is during boost and wot trying to help manage traction.
What would your initial timing be with the settings above?
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Kevin
 
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MSD 6530 boost retard question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
...

Even with a small cap we have used 24° of timing swing 38° to 14° and the 14° is during boost and wot trying to help manage traction.

Somehow I missed this. The distributor I bought has the small cap. I was beginning to think I wouldn’t be able to get the settings I wanted without upgrading to the bigger cap.
Is rotor phasing all you had to do to get that much retard without crossfire problems?

And, is the crab cap you mentioned their adapt-a-cap with adj. rotor kit?


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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 19, 11:19 PM
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

flht,

Based on the 2 graphs you posted (as best I can see them with my old eyes, lol)you would install the locked distributor at 36* to achieve the "max timing" you label at 3,000 RPM in the run curve. So, out on the road if you are at 3,000 RPM and above with only part throttle so you have high vacuum you will be at 36*.

However, if you go wot at 3,000 RPM, vacuum will go to 0 (which is 14-14.5 on the boost axis depending where you live) your boost curve will pull 10* and you will be running at 26* total. Is that what you are wanting?

If you want your cruise timing to be higher, you will have to stab the distributor in at more than 36*. Say 42* if that is what you wanted for cruise. That would give you 32* at WOT above 3,000 RPM. Now for starting you would be pulling even more timing to go easy on the starter which means even higher chance of cross fire and kick back. At that point I'd recommend an ignition cutout switch so you can get the engine spinning over with no spark then flip the switch to light the fire. That is what I did when I had the 6530 in mine.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 19, 6:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Owens View Post
...
Is that what you are wanting?
...
When I first posted the charts I didn't understand how the two curves worked together. When Calculated Risk posted this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk
You can technically add timing. Even with EFI and coil on plugs when you "add" timing, you are technically only removing retard. So with the 6530 you essentially set the pickup to run the most timing you will ever want to run. So if it likes a cruise of 45°, but most everywhere else you want to be 34-35, you setup the 0 point at 45 and always run 11° of retard. Then when you want to "add" timing with the MAP based strategy, you are simply removing retard to "add".
I think a light came on for me. You had also made a comment about removing retard but it just never clicked.

The biggest hurdle I have now is phasing the rotor and getting enough timing in without crossfiring. If the small cap doesn't get it I will have to pick up the bigger cap.

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 19, 7:45 AM Thread Starter
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Kevin
 
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Re: MSD 6530 boost retard question

This is the timing curve I am planning on loading.
40 deg max locked in
16 deg btdc initial (up to 1200)
32 deg max cent
8 deg vac
all in at 2800

with a 24 deg total retard, rotor will be phased to eliminate possibility of crossfiring

Any comments appreciated.
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