Went drag racing - major break down - Page 6 - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

 66Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #76 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 19, 2:01 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

I talked with where I bought the trans from, and basically all I can do is find a 31 spline slip yoke to see if the output shaft splines are twisted too. Otherwise, the mainshaft could be damaged but I wont know without disassembly, so basically if a slip yolk goes on freely, then I'll try driving it and see how it feels.

I talked with Moser, and they said if I can't get the Motul 300 that I could just run a Lucas Oil 75w-90. I asked if they suggested a 140w, they didn't say that's needed.

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #77 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 19, 2:30 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,963
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Another tip Iíll offer is stage INTO the line lock. Meaning try to set the line lock at the pre stage bulb and bump into the stage beam with the line lock on. It keeps the drivetrain loaded. You donít want all the backlash in the driveline to open up. When you dump the clutch all those parts crash together.

I have my line lock wired to my trans brake so when I step on the brake and set the trans brake the front brakes are set on the line lock when the trans brake comes on. The car does not rock or move.
Tarheel Chevelle likes this.

Ray


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Best pass 8.87 at 150.98 1.212 60'. Sold 3/2018

1970 SS 396 project in progress. Bought 5/2018
bracketchev1221 is offline  
post #78 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 19, 7:04 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 50
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Idiot proofing your car by over building just slows you down. In the end you will still have a clutch that hits too hard to achieve an efficient launch. All it really takes to bring your car around without breaking it is just adding a little clutch slip time to soften the hit of that RXT.

I have my new version of a clutch hit controller installed in-line between my clutch master and hyd T-brg. It produces a stepped release curve that can also be set up to be active on launch only. It uses a timer to control the duration of the step, and an adjustable valve I call the "HitMaster" valve that separately controls the intensity of the hit. It basically converts a standard hydraulic clutch system to 2 stage, with a softer 1st stage hit that's on a timer, then the 2nd stage of full clutch clamp pressure comes in after the transition timer times out.

A few weeks ago I was experimenting with a Ram dual friction organic/metallic disc, combined with a 2800lb diaphragm PP. 2.78 1st gear, 3.73 rear gear, 28" M/T 275 radials @ 28psi. 1st stage timer was set to 1.0sec. Fired the car up, drove a few miles from the shop to warm the oil up a bit, then stopped on the chip sealed surface to make a hit. Just a random county road with zero rubber down, dead cold 275 radials, no burnout at all. 4500 clutch dump produced a dead hook launch that peaked at 0.98 G's @ 1.02sec. When the 2nd stage of the clutch kicked in at 1.0sec, it knocked the tires loose and accel G's dropped to .72.

Later I did basically the same routine except raised the 1st stage timer setting to 1.5sec for the purpose of extending slip time during launch. This time a 4900 clutch dump produced a dead hook launch that peaked at 1.22 G's @ 1.8sec, well after the clutch's 2nd stage transition.

Remember, this is dead hooked radials on a zero prep random chip sealed county road with no burnout at all. The dual friction disc doesn't mind the 1.5sec slip time that it takes to bring it all together even on a zero prep surface. Adding 0.5 sec of clutch slip time improved peak accel by .24G's, it also got to the same dead hooked driveshaft speed of 2200rpm .625sec quicker. No other changes at all between the two launches, all I did was add .5sec to the clutch transition timer.

Grant

Grant
website-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

We make your non-adjustable clutch...ADJUSTABLE!
sr530 is offline  
 
post #79 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr530 View Post
Idiot proofing your car by over building just slows you down. In the end you will still have a clutch that hits too hard to achieve an efficient launch. All it really takes to bring your car around without breaking it is just adding a little clutch slip time to soften the hit of that RXT.

I have my new version of a clutch hit controller installed in-line between my clutch master and hyd T-brg. It produces a stepped release curve that can also be set up to be active on launch only. It uses a timer to control the duration of the step, and an adjustable valve I call the "HitMaster" valve that separately controls the intensity of the hit. It basically converts a standard hydraulic clutch system to 2 stage, with a softer 1st stage hit that's on a timer, then the 2nd stage of full clutch clamp pressure comes in after the transition timer times out.

A few weeks ago I was experimenting with a Ram dual friction organic/metallic disc, combined with a 2800lb diaphragm PP. 2.78 1st gear, 3.73 rear gear, 28" M/T 275 radials @ 28psi. 1st stage timer was set to 1.0sec. Fired the car up, drove a few miles from the shop to warm the oil up a bit, then stopped on the chip sealed surface to make a hit. Just a random county road with zero rubber down, dead cold 275 radials, no burnout at all. 4500 clutch dump produced a dead hook launch that peaked at 0.98 G's @ 1.02sec. When the 2nd stage of the clutch kicked in at 1.0sec, it knocked the tires loose and accel G's dropped to .72.

Later I did basically the same routine except raised the 1st stage timer setting to 1.5sec for the purpose of extending slip time during launch. This time a 4900 clutch dump produced a dead hook launch that peaked at 1.22 G's @ 1.8sec, well after the clutch's 2nd stage transition.

Remember, this is dead hooked radials on a zero prep random chip sealed county road with no burnout at all. The dual friction disc doesn't mind the 1.5sec slip time that it takes to bring it all together even on a zero prep surface. Adding 0.5 sec of clutch slip time improved peak accel by .24G's, it also got to the same dead hooked driveshaft speed of 2200rpm .625sec quicker. No other changes at all between the two launches, all I did was add .5sec to the clutch transition timer.

Grant
I tend to agree that I need some sort of launch control with this clutch. I've looked at your Clutch Tamer before. I need to look more into the hydraulic version. Can it be controlled to only work on the launch and not on the shifts?

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
post #80 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 1:53 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 50
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

If the timer is triggered off of line lock release, then it's only active for a short period just after launch only.
If you trigger it with a clutch switch, it's active on launch + shifts.
You can also use two timers, one triggered off of the line lock release, one triggered by a clutch switch. That allows separate timer settings for launch vs shifts.

Grant
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HitMaster system Plumbing Schematic PNG.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	87.9 KB
ID:	595518  

Grant
website-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

We make your non-adjustable clutch...ADJUSTABLE!
sr530 is offline  
post #81 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 2:16 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr530 View Post
If the timer is triggered off of line lock release, then it's only active for a short period just after launch only.
If you trigger it with a clutch switch, it's active on launch + shifts.
You can also use two timers, one triggered off of the line lock release, one triggered by a clutch switch. That allows separate timer settings for launch vs shifts.

Grant
Given that clutch fluid has to go through the system at all times, won't that have an affect on how the clutch reacts/feels during normal driving?

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
post #82 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 2:42 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 50
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

No effect at all during casual driving, as the transition valve is normally open which allows fluid to bypass the hit control valve. It's only when the timer trigger sees 12v that the hit control system becomes active. When 12v is removed from the trigger, the timer countdown begins. After the timer times out, the transition valve opens and fluid is again allowed to bypass the hit control valve.

Grant

Grant
website-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

We make your non-adjustable clutch...ADJUSTABLE!
sr530 is offline  
post #83 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 4:47 PM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,358
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

PS...with no basis in fact or science, I still prefer dino gear oil in my slightly upgraded 12 bolt and stick. 80-90 is fine.

And if I ever do alot of racing, thanks for the heads up Richy Rich... bias ply slicks...who wouldve thunk,but it make sense.....

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #84 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 6:41 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
PS...with no basis in fact or science, I still prefer dino gear oil in my slightly upgraded 12 bolt and stick. 80-90 is fine.

And if I ever do alot of racing, thanks for the heads up Richy Rich... bias ply slicks...who wouldve thunk,but it make sense.....
Moser recommends Motul 300 for TrueTrac LSD's, even though Eaton recommends conventional. Local shop here says they put in Red Line. I've also been told to run a simple Lucus 75w90.

If I could, I would gladly run a synthetic oil for a very small improvement in friction loss, but also more thermal capacity.

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
post #85 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 7:10 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 607
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
Moser recommends Motul 300 for TrueTrac LSD's, even though Eaton recommends conventional. Local shop here says they put in Red Line. I've also been told to run a simple Lucus 75w90.

If I could, I would gladly run a synthetic oil for a very small improvement in friction loss, but also more thermal capacity.
I am running richmond 85-140 synthetic because that is what they recommended.
Lets's see how my rear holds up with my stick
427L88 and -SS454- like this.
tacomatrd is offline  
post #86 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 8:17 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,025
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

My informal research into rear gear lube resulted in plenty good reports for Amsoil Severe Gear so that's what I use.

LS1tech.com supermoderator.
How may I help you?
1971 Monte Carlo SS454-496ci 600hp
1999 Trans Am-500hp
2003 Iszu Ascender XL Limited V8
paul bell is offline  
post #87 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 9:17 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul bell View Post
My informal research into rear gear lube resulted in plenty good reports for Amsoil Severe Gear so that's what I use.
I use their ATF in the T56 and am quite happy with that. Thanks for the suggestion.

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
post #88 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 9:20 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,025
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

My opinion is that Amsoil is the finest lubricant you can buy. When I win the lottery, I'll use it in everything. But until then, just my diff.
427L88 likes this.

LS1tech.com supermoderator.
How may I help you?
1971 Monte Carlo SS454-496ci 600hp
1999 Trans Am-500hp
2003 Iszu Ascender XL Limited V8
paul bell is offline  
post #89 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,026
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr530 View Post
No effect at all during casual driving, as the transition valve is normally open which allows fluid to bypass the hit control valve. It's only when the timer trigger sees 12v that the hit control system becomes active. When 12v is removed from the trigger, the timer countdown begins. After the timer times out, the transition valve opens and fluid is again allowed to bypass the hit control valve.

Grant
Since reaction time isn't critical for me, wouldn't I only need the "2nd stage transition valve" which appears to be the adjustable bleed valve?

All I want is a device that bleeds slows the rate of clutch engagement and of course is adjustable.

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is offline  
post #90 of 118 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 19, 11:38 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Beth
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 1,618
Garage
Re: Went drag racing - major break down

The helical gear posis like the S-trac and tru-trac require non-synthetic.

If the oil is too slippery, the torque-bias doesn't work.

Just something to consider.

I don't think the type of oil is going to prevent overloading and sudden failure of parts.

Synthetics are great for slowing normal wear.

67 Chevelle convertible, 138 vin, original 4 speed, bucket seats, Marina Blue with black interior
nashville beth is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome