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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 19, 11:50 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

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Originally Posted by Cper View Post
Does anyone mount two bottles so there is an extra when one runs out or do you just have Ann extra one on hand to make the change?
At this point in time I wouldn’t spend the extra money. Wait until you have run it a few times and see how long one bottle will last. Even then, I’d think long and hard about installing a second bottle. How often will you need to change it out, will you ever be in a position where you won’t have the time to make the swap? Maybe pick up a second bottle if you find a good deal, just check the date on it, some places won’t refill bottles unless they have been certified within a certain period of time.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 19, 11:05 AM
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George
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

The NOS Cheater plate is what most of the guys around here use.

I have the wot micro switch on mine hooked up to an MSD 6530. This allows me to program how much timing gets pulled when the wot switch trips. I have it hooked up on the carb secondary linkage. Works great.

Learn to read plugs. One range colder is probably what you will end up with, no projected tips.

I ended up not needing to pull any timing on a 125 shot. But good to pull some at first and work your way up.

I have a bottle heater wired in, it works. Also have a purge kit.

Also add one of the cheap holley regulators for the fuel side. You will want to flow the fuel pressure...5-1/2 psi is what I run.

Its a whole lot of fun!!

'71 Malibu
3580 #, Carbed 6.0l LS swap in process
T-350, PTC 9" converter, 12 bolt, spool, 3.90 gears, MT ET R 275/60/15

355 [email protected]
125 [email protected]
383 Mud Motor- [email protected]
100 shot [email protected]
'72 Greenbrier Wagon: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3.73
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 19, 9:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

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Originally Posted by Geo71 View Post
The NOS Cheater plate is what most of the guys around here use.

I have the wot micro switch on mine hooked up to an MSD 6530. This allows me to program how much timing gets pulled when the wot switch trips. I have it hooked up on the carb secondary linkage. Works great.

Learn to read plugs. One range colder is probably what you will end up with, no projected tips.

I ended up not needing to pull any timing on a 125 shot. But good to pull some at first and work your way up.

I have a bottle heater wired in, it works. Also have a purge kit.

Also add one of the cheap holley regulators for the fuel side. You will want to flow the fuel pressure...5-1/2 psi is what I run.

Its a whole lot of fun!!
Thanks for the reply.
So how often do you have to use the heater? Do you use the purge kit every tome you plan on using the nitrous or is it just there. How big of kit do you have?. Adding another 125/150 hp has to be fun for sure. LOL 😂
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 19, 10:38 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Number one thing to remember is that timing kills. Pull extra timing, it won't slow the car that much. Once you get used to it and have had some time reading plugs you can start adding 1 degree at a time. You get the very best reading when the plugs are installed right before the pass and pulled right after. Kill it on the return road and pull a couple plugs. Driving around before and after the pass at part throttle will totally change the plug reading. Are you running pump gas? What is your compression ratio? What is your fuel system consist of? Do you have an MSD box that can pull timing? What manufacturer made your kit?

You need to purge the system right before you make a pass other wise you will have a rich bog as you leave the line. You can use a purge or setup a button to activate the system and purge it into the engine. If you purge into the engine you have to bring it up to 3,000 before purging or you could cause damage. I always just ran a purge solenoid to vent at the base of the wind shield. Then I could see if it was just air or nitrous. Go 1 step colder on the plugs. I wouldn't mess with a fuel pressure safety switch. When I first started running nitrous I ran a FPSS and no purge. A bottle heater is helpful but not necessary. Depending on the kit, you need to keep the pressure above 900PSI and typically below 1,000. If the pressure is low it will run fat. If the pressure is high it will run lean. Don't use a torch to heat the bottle. I would put my bottles on the passenger side floor of my truck and run the heater aimed at the floor to bring the pressure up. Or run the A/C to bring the pressure down. The heater will come in handy if you are running at night and the weather is cooling off. With the flip of the switch you can bring the pressure back up while in the staging lanes.

Below is a picture of my car 10 years ago, or more, running 10 teens at 128 with a 357SBC on a 175 shot. It ran 11.20's on the motor. It ran 9.71 at 143 with a 175 shot on my 427SBC. The 9.71 tune was real lean. The fuel jet was 16 sizes smaller than the nitrous jet and it only had 22 degrees of timing. The 175 shot on the 357 was according to the manufacturer, NOS, and the fuel jet was 10 sizes bigger than the nitrous jet. To get it to run clean I ran 30 degrees of timing on that tune. The tunes were much fatter years ago. I ended up reducing the fuel jet by 26 sizes from years ago to recently on the same 175 shot in an NOS plate. Also pulled a bunch more timing.
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'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" Billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal S/S rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel rockers, Cloyes Timing Set, 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050", .704" lift, Dart single plane, Dominator EFI, Stef's #1705R pan, F2 Procharger on E85
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 9:46 AM
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George
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cper View Post
Thanks for the reply.
So how often do you have to use the heater? Do you use the purge kit every tome you plan on using the nitrous or is it just there. How big of kit do you have?. Adding another 125/150 hp has to be fun for sure. LOL 😂
The heater has a thermostat in it. Anytime its cold or cool I turn it on till it gets the bottle temp a bit over 900 psi. Then purge it down to around 900. Sometimes the bottle is warm enough on its own in the summertime.
I use the purge kit right before making a pass and also when Im done for the day.
Its a 250hp kit. With the new 6.0l I may have a fogger kit installed and keep the plate for a second kit. Something for fun.

On 100 shot jetting mine went from 335rwhp to 462 rwhp.

'71 Malibu
3580 #, Carbed 6.0l LS swap in process
T-350, PTC 9" converter, 12 bolt, spool, 3.90 gears, MT ET R 275/60/15

355 [email protected]
125 [email protected]
383 Mud Motor- [email protected]
100 shot [email protected]
'72 Greenbrier Wagon: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3.73
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 1:01 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

You'll want a good pressure gauge on the bottle. With a full bottle if the pressure is low (below 900 psi) you will need to heat it up and if the pressure is to high (above 1,000 psi) cool it down. I have a bottle heater and only need it in the fall, in the summer I find it harder keeping the bottle cool with it mounted in the trunk. I take wet towel and freeze it the night before and use it for cooling the bottle on hot summer days.

I would recommend taking some timing out, the general rule is 2 degrees for every 50 hp. It's nice if you have an ignition box that can take timing out on an RPM switch, that way it won't affect your NA tune and safe if you spray it.

WOT switch normally comes with the kit, it's pretty easy to install and set up.

I don't have a purge, I will make a pass and hit it for a couple seconds in 2nd or 3rd to get any air out and then it's ready for the day. It would be nice/good to have though.

Fuel system, I'm using a Holley Blue pump and it has enough capacity to feed the carb and 125HP kit.

I'll get about 6 passes off a bottle before I get it refilled, I think it best to keep the bottle in the top half and doesn't seem so expensive when you only need 4-5 lbs to fill it up

Enjoy, it's definitely a lot of fun!

77 Trans Am: 461 BBC with CS HR, Brodix RR ovals, TH400, 3200 stall, 3:90 gear.
Best 1/4 NA 11.4 @ 119, and 10.8 @ 123 with 125HP shot of NOS.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 7:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve69SS396 View Post
Number one thing to remember is that timing kills. Pull extra timing, it won't slow the car that much. Once you get used to it and have had some time reading plugs you can start adding 1 degree at a time. You get the very best reading when the plugs are installed right before the pass and pulled right after. Kill it on the return road and pull a couple plugs. Driving around before and after the pass at part throttle will totally change the plug reading. Are you running pump gas? What is your compression ratio? What is your fuel system consist of? Do you have an MSD box that can pull timing? What manufacturer made your kit?

You need to purge the system right before you make a pass other wise you will have a rich bog as you leave the line. You can use a purge or setup a button to activate the system and purge it into the engine. If you purge into the engine you have to bring it up to 3,000 before purging or you could cause damage. I always just ran a purge solenoid to vent at the base of the wind shield. Then I could see if it was just air or nitrous. Go 1 step colder on the plugs. I wouldn't mess with a fuel pressure safety switch. When I first started running nitrous I ran a FPSS and no purge. A bottle heater is helpful but not necessary. Depending on the kit, you need to keep the pressure above 900PSI and typically below 1,000. If the pressure is low it will run fat. If the pressure is high it will run lean. Don't use a torch to heat the bottle. I would put my bottles on the passenger side floor of my truck and run the heater aimed at the floor to bring the pressure up. Or run the A/C to bring the pressure down. The heater will come in handy if you are running at night and the weather is cooling off. With the flip of the switch you can bring the pressure back up while in the staging lanes.

Below is a picture of my car 10 years ago, or more, running 10 teens at 128 with a 357SBC on a 175 shot. It ran 11.20's on the motor. It ran 9.71 at 143 with a 175 shot on my 427SBC. The 9.71 tune was real lean. The fuel jet was 16 sizes smaller than the nitrous jet and it only had 22 degrees of timing. The 175 shot on the 357 was according to the manufacturer, NOS, and the fuel jet was 10 sizes bigger than the nitrous jet. To get it to run clean I ran 30 degrees of timing on that tune. The tunes were much fatter years ago. I ended up reducing the fuel jet by 26 sizes from years ago to recently on the same 175 shot in an NOS plate. Also pulled a bunch more timing.
A lot of information there Steve thank you.
Car is 9.7 compression and I run it on 93 pump gas. I have ran some 113 race fuel thru it occasionally.
So you are making your fuel side jet size based solely on what you are reading from the plugs right?
So how due you know when to spot advancing the timing?
Assuming that I would retard the timing 5/6 degrees to start with using say a 125 jet and then start advancing it by 1 degree at a time , without blowing the thing up how do you know where to stop? LOL
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 9:33 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

I want to start by stating I've never run a nitrous engine. But one thing I've always thought that if you run nitrous you need to adjust your ring gap accordingly. Maybe this is only at high levels or if you are using it regularly. I don't know but thought I would bring it up

Thanks, Joe

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 10:18 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cper View Post
A lot of information there Steve thank you.
Car is 9.7 compression and I run it on 93 pump gas. I have ran some 113 race fuel thru it occasionally.
So you are making your fuel side jet size based solely on what you are reading from the plugs right?
So how due you know when to spot advancing the timing?
Assuming that I would retard the timing 5/6 degrees to start with using say a 125 jet and then start advancing it by 1 degree at a time , without blowing the thing up how do you know where to stop? LOL
I would definitely run race gas when on the nitrous. What do you have for a fuel system? Mechanical or electric pump? Adjustable regulator? Yes, adjust the fuel jet and timing by reading the plugs. It's a balance of fuel and timing. Most tunes from the manufacturers are very rich. What brand of kit do you have? I would pull at least 6 degrees or even 8 to be safe. Here is a good brief article on plug reading: https://www.dragstuff.com/techarticl...-pictures.html

I went back and looked at my notes and my car ran 9.71 on a 150 shot. That was 63Nitrous and 47Fuel jet at 6PSI flowing and 24 degrees of timing. That's 12 retarded. You will want to get or borrow a tool to set your fuel pressure flowing through the fuel jet you will use. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/zex-82244


'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" Billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal S/S rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel rockers, Cloyes Timing Set, 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050", .704" lift, Dart single plane, Dominator EFI, Stef's #1705R pan, F2 Procharger on E85
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 11:24 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve69SS396 View Post
Number one thing to remember is that timing kills. Pull extra timing, it won't slow the car that much. Once you get used to it and have had some time reading plugs you can start adding 1 degree at a time. You get the very best reading when the plugs are installed right before the pass and pulled right after. Kill it on the return road and pull a couple plugs. Driving around before and after the pass at part throttle will totally change the plug reading. Are you running pump gas? What is your compression ratio? What is your fuel system consist of? Do you have an MSD box that can pull timing? What manufacturer made your kit?

You need to purge the system right before you make a pass other wise you will have a rich bog as you leave the line. You can use a purge or setup a button to activate the system and purge it into the engine. If you purge into the engine you have to bring it up to 3,000 before purging or you could cause damage. I always just ran a purge solenoid to vent at the base of the wind shield. Then I could see if it was just air or nitrous. Go 1 step colder on the plugs. I wouldn't mess with a fuel pressure safety switch. When I first started running nitrous I ran a FPSS and no purge. A bottle heater is helpful but not necessary. Depending on the kit, you need to keep the pressure above 900PSI and typically below 1,000. If the pressure is low it will run fat. If the pressure is high it will run lean. Don't use a torch to heat the bottle. I would put my bottles on the passenger side floor of my truck and run the heater aimed at the floor to bring the pressure up. Or run the A/C to bring the pressure down. The heater will come in handy if you are running at night and the weather is cooling off. With the flip of the switch you can bring the pressure back up while in the staging lanes.

Below is a picture of my car 10 years ago, or more, running 10 teens at 128 with a 357SBC on a 175 shot. It ran 11.20's on the motor. It ran 9.71 at 143 with a 175 shot on my 427SBC. The 9.71 tune was real lean. The fuel jet was 16 sizes smaller than the nitrous jet and it only had 22 degrees of timing. The 175 shot on the 357 was according to the manufacturer, NOS, and the fuel jet was 10 sizes bigger than the nitrous jet. To get it to run clean I ran 30 degrees of timing on that tune. The tunes were much fatter years ago. I ended up reducing the fuel jet by 26 sizes from years ago to recently on the same 175 shot in an NOS plate. Also pulled a bunch more timing.
You sure are right about NOS systems being fuel rich. The first time I got on the dyno with a cheater kit we went down 10 jet sizes on the fuel side and the A/F was still at 11.8, when I went to the track the next time with the new tune the car dropped from 10.39 down to a [email protected] (small load). Kinda sucked that day as that was the end, the slicks were not having anything to do with more passes like that. Felt like I was racing on Lay's potato chips the rest of the day.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 19, 8:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Lots of great information here. Thank you all.
I am really interested in pursuing a nitrous kit but I want to be safe with the install. That's why I am asking so many questions.
So if I am getting this all right sounds like for even a reasonable hp kit like 125 that to be safe and to have it preform to the fullest I would need first a quality kit.
Say a NOS Supper Supper Powershot Kit.
A purge kit to be safe?
A heater to insure the bottle stays up to temperature?
Follow installation closely?
I have but one more question here and that would be is a factory stock 5/16 fuel supply line going to be big enough to supply both a 850 CEM double pumper and the 125/150 shot of nitrous?
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 19, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Lol please excuse the fat finger syndrome in the last post. I should proof read before submitting.😂 Supper Supper??? CEM ??? 🙄
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 19, 1:02 AM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

no on the 5/16 line. make yourself a 1/2" line, run it beside the original 5/16 line, which would make a return line if you got into a return regulator.

Again, 5/16 line not big enough for good running big block with a 4.11. your engine will also tell you this by burning the tops off a few pistons.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 19, 3:42 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

A 5/16" line is way too small to supply both. I ran two complete separate fuel systems on my car when it had nitrous. The fuel system for the engine had a 1/2" line and the system just for the nitrous had a 3/8" line.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" Billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal S/S rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel rockers, Cloyes Timing Set, 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050", .704" lift, Dart single plane, Dominator EFI, Stef's #1705R pan, F2 Procharger on E85
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 19, 4:56 PM
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Re: New Guy Nitrous ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cper View Post
Lots of great information here. Thank you all.
I am really interested in pursuing a nitrous kit but I want to be safe with the install. That's why I am asking so many questions.
So if I am getting this all right sounds like for even a reasonable hp kit like 125 that to be safe and to have it preform to the fullest I would need first a quality kit.
Say a NOS Supper Supper Powershot Kit.
A purge kit to be safe?
A heater to insure the bottle stays up to temperature?
Follow installation closely?
I have but one more question here and that would be is a factory stock 5/16 fuel supply line going to be big enough to supply both a 850 CEM double pumper and the 125/150 shot of nitrous?
Keep it simple.

I have ran nitrous for over 5 years on the street and well into the 10's with it.

Some real world key points:

The kits ( standard 125 plate deal) are designed for 4.5 psi fuel pressure minimum, when you hear folks jetting down fuel side that's because there fuel pressure is higher than what the kits was designed for and this was a factory protection built in. they assume the worst customer just bolting in a kit with stock style fuel system- after all most give you a "t" to cut into your fuel system.

It is really best not to purge, really need to ignore these folks, you do not want the nitrous to beat the fuel to the intake manifold- that is just plain stupid. Purging is really for the high output systems that have super higher fuel pressures and these guys have their zhit together. They have a specific system. The basic kits do not need these purge kits.

A basic system you want that protection of the fuel to get there first. So just don't buy into the purge kit yet.

I ran for over 5 years with no heater, little common sense goes a long ways. Best performance at 900- 950 psi. to cold let the sun soak on it heats right up or even a heat lamp. I normally had issues keeping it cool. using ice to cool the bottle, or running cold water from a hose over it before I staged.

If nitrous gets to high in bottle pressure it turns to a hot air and it won't make you go faster it will just buck and kick down the drag strip, you will run super rich, the higher you get away from 950 psi your nitrous starts to degrade. Of course to cold and the bottle pressure to low, you won't flow enough nitrous and run to rich and bog.

typical 10 lbs bottle you get about 6 passes. you will never use all the nitrous normally couple lbs left you can never use.

I would do my burnout and I would do a dry hop with the nitrous, active nitrous above 3000 rpm and full throttle. I did this to make sure all was well. Pull up to the line bring my rpm up to 3000 and when the second amber came on hit the nitrous and floored it at the same time.

125 kit took a 14.99 car to 12.69, 175 kit took a 12.19 car to 10.80 using this method.

I ran 1/2 inch fuel line from tank pickup to holley mechanical fuel pump. 3/8 " line to a fuel regulator and one side went to 850 double pumper and the other side went to fuel side of the nitrous kit. I set fuel pressure at 7 psi at wot and when the nitrous kit was activated with a push button the fuel pressure would drop to 6 psi wot.

I had a fuel pressure gauge I could read at all times just outside my windshield.

during the 125 to 175 hp usage I ran same stock plugs with projected tips, I would run 6 degrees timing less from 36 to 30 total.

I did make a run on 150 hp jets with 36 total timing and it did chip some of the porcelain on the plugs. I did make a run on full timing on 125 jets and didn't hurt a thing.

At some point you do want to read plugs and understand whats going on, I never hurt my car or blow anything up, biggest key to all of this is to have fuel pressure. You can be off on the timing some and not have a carb totally dialed in as long as you got good fuel pressure.

After 125 hp the 150 and 175 came real quick, nitrous is to easy once you get it installed, I would spend money all on fuel line, fuel pump and fuel pressure gauges and make sure you have a gauge on the bottle. All that "extra crap" can wait spend money on the fuel side of things first.

I tried a few micro switches but they was short lived, they would burn up. I just always went back to the blue push button the nitrous kit came with.

Another tip, shift lower rpm and you will go faster, my bbc ran best at 7200 rpm for best e.t. and mph naturally aspirated, nitrous did best at 5500 rpm. So shift lower rpm or at least play with your shift points.

My experience - never broke anything because of nitrous.


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