Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ? - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 8:31 AM Thread Starter
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Beth
 
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Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Here's the engine : a 489 wolfplace rotating assembly, 4.250 forged crank, scat I-beam rods and 4.280" srp forged pistons.

The heads are edelbrock oval ports with stainless 11/32" stem 2.19" intake valves.

The cam is a mild Howards roller, 219/227 @ .550" lift.

The stock springs are edelbrock 5745 , 1.975" installed height, 1.540" OD,
135 seat press, 320 open. They are not recommended to be used on a hyd roller.

I am looking at PAC #1220 because I like that they will lighten the valvetrain.
Has anyone used the PAC 1220's ?

Specs are here : https://www.racingsprings.com/index..../category/339/

PAC has a cheaper spring that would work and it has an inner spring. I know some people like the inner spring in case a spring breaks, it may keep the valve from hitting the piston ?

https://www.racingsprings.com/index..../category/339/

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 11:29 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Beth,
I would call Howards and talk to Eric. He will tell you the correct open and closed spring pressures for the camshaft. That is the first thing you need to know. After that you will have to chose a spring that will fit on those heads. You will probably have to pull one of the present springs off so you can measure the size of the valve guide and the valve spring cutout. Once you know those numbers you can order a spring that will work. You may have to use different retainers too.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 11:34 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

x2 on calling Competition Products and asking for Eric.
FWIW, you will probably end up in the 145 lbs on the seat and 380 lbs open range
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 11:37 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

I have a comp cams hyd roller cam that's in the upper .570 range and the springs are something like 140 seat and 440 open and I am not sure I would want to RPM that to high even with those. I would look at some beehive springs with a light retainer then you could possibly run a lower spring with better results.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
x2 on calling Competition Products and asking for Eric.
FWIW, you will probably end up in the 145 lbs on the seat and 380 lbs open range
That is about what the PAC 1220 springs spec at

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Chevele View Post
I have a comp cams hyd roller cam that's in the upper .570 range and the springs are something like 140 seat and 440 open and I am not sure I would want to RPM that to high even with those. I would look at some beehive springs with a light retainer then you could possibly run a lower spring with better results.
The PAC 1220 looks better all the time :-)
I am hoping to turn the engine to 6200
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Last edited by nashville beth; Apr 16th, 19 at 12:02 PM.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 12:47 PM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Also,if the cam is a cast iron roller (SADI core) you probably don't want springs that are in the 400 lb. + open range.
if its a billet steel core,then it would be applicable (400 lbs.+)

I also believe that cam will be "all done" way before 6200 but nothing wrong with a having decent springs if you get a little over enthusiastic with the rpms (within reason)
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 1:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
Also,if the cam is a cast iron roller (SADI core) you probably don't want springs that are in the 400 lb. + open range.
if its a billet steel core,then it would be applicable (400 lbs.+)

Not sure, all Howards says is : All Howards Cams use the highest-grade race quality cores available. All hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet camshafts are 100% Rockwell checked and Parkerized to ensure the highest quality control standards available anywhere.
I think just the mechanical rollers are billet.
I don't want real stiff springs for a street car anyway. The PAC 1220's are 370 lbs open and lighter than regular springs.
I just wonder how many are using the beehive design on BBC's ?



I also believe that cam will be "all done" way before 6200 but nothing wrong with a having decent springs if you get a little over enthusiastic with the rpms (within reason)
Agree. With "wolfies" rotating assembly it should "wind to the moon." LOL

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 2:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
Beth,
I would call Howards and talk to Eric. He will tell you the correct open and closed spring pressures for the camshaft. That is the first thing you need to know. After that you will have to chose a spring that will fit on those heads.
I did call Eric. He said the pressures of the PAC 1220's would be ok - (155 closed, 370 open)

It looks like the spring locator cup will fit around the guide ok :
https://pitstopusa.com/i-23927765-pa...waAhm1EALw_wcB

It would be nice if someone would chime in who's using the PAC 1220 springs.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 6:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Comp Cams sells the PAC-1220 spring under a different part number :

COMP Cams: Beehive™ Valve Springs: Top 1.095" O.D., .650" I.D.; Bottom 1.445" O.D., 1.000" I.D.

They also have two different cup seats for different size guides, retainers and shims ; everything you need to put these springs on a BBC

I found the PAC springs $60 cheaper on Amazon.

Here's a video of a guy putting PAC springs on a BBC with a flat tappet comp cam. He displays the wrong part no for the spring - "20120" should be "26120"


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 7:07 PM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

I have a set of real nice Bee Hive springs,Brand New.
The Fiber Tape to seal the carton is still intact, as the box has never EVER been opened !
PM me if interested.
https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=477&gid=192

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 10:00 PM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
Also,if the cam is a cast iron roller (SADI core) you probably don't want springs that are in the 400 lb. + open range.
if its a billet steel core,then it would be applicable (400 lbs.+)

I also believe that cam will be "all done" way before 6200 but nothing wrong with a having decent springs if you get a little over enthusiastic with the rpms (within reason)
I have a CC 288AR10 that is a cast core and their springs for that cam are either 440lbs open or 520lbs open. I also thought that was king of high for a cast core cam.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 5:28 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Comp or similar conical springs might be an option if available for your engine.
When I have gone from conventional springs to beehives, I have found you lose some installed height, so that should be checked.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 5:45 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

I would be honest with the realistic max rpm and run the lowest press. spring. For ~5500, I'd be around 130-140 seat and around 350-380 open.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 6:13 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

For such a mild cam I would get a double spring with a cup/locator and matching retainers/locks. No need for fancy stuff. What lifters and rocker arms are you going to use? That also comes into play when choosing what pressure you want(some lifters and stampen steel rocker arms dont like to much pressure if you want them to live).
Pull a spring and check the installed height you cant trust that it as advertised.
Since you bought your rotating assembly from one of the best you know where to go for springs. Vince recomendation 130-140 seat and 350-380 open sounds like a good advise.

Is there room to shim current springs to gain some pressure? The heads with the springs you have can handle up to .700” lift if Im looking at correct part nr. Maybe shim what you have?

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Last edited by Malibu ss 64; Apr 17th, 19 at 6:29 AM.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 6:31 AM
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Re: Which valve springs for mild hydraulic roller ?

Beth, just a fwiw, I run the Isky 8005a for my solid flat tappet ( 7500), and they set up just like that 135/370 @1.900" 1.550" dual spring set up for 600+ lift with Ti retainers.

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Last edited by 427L88; Apr 17th, 19 at 6:49 AM.
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