Interesting valve failure - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 8:31 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Greg
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petal, MS
Posts: 1,060
Garage
Interesting valve failure

This is from a buddy’s pro charged 565, happened during testing and we tore it down last night. Engine had about 6-7 330’ passes on it since everything was new. Not a cheap piece at all, “best of the best” kind of deal. Not gonna say who’s car, but it is a no prep outlaw car.
54# boost, EFI(methanol), engine died at 7800 rpm 1.7 seconds into the run. He killed it, and still coasted to a 5.50 1/8th mike et!!
Any ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3AF48B2B-0337-4B30-95CA-606F29A4AF8D_1553167830057.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	67.5 KB
ID:	589660  

Greg C.
1969 Chevelle Malibu
New, waaaay overcammed 496 "The Dud"
[email protected]
Iforgot is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 10:30 AM
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lincoln pk NJ
Posts: 3,423
Re: Interesting valve failure

Ouch! That stinks!
How bad is the rest of it?
Looks like it can't be good but hope I'm wrong!

73 nova,3515#(all steel)Pump gas!(91octane)406ci N/A, best 1/4,1.45 '60,[email protected],10.6 @ 122.38, short shifting,NO tuning!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WHT/73 is online now  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Greg
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petal, MS
Posts: 1,060
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHT/73 View Post
Ouch! That stinks!
How bad is the rest of it?
Looks like it can't be good but hope I'm wrong!
Would you believe the only damage was a few scuffs on top of a piston, where the valve fragments ended up? Fragments ended up on top of #4 piston, came from #1 intake valve. Weird stuff goes on inside an engine!!
WHT/73 likes this.

Greg C.
1969 Chevelle Malibu
New, waaaay overcammed 496 "The Dud"
[email protected]
Iforgot is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 12:34 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 470
Re: Interesting valve failure

Are those valves steel or titanium ?
68Chevele is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 1:38 PM
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lincoln pk NJ
Posts: 3,423
Re: Interesting valve failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Would you believe the only damage was a few scuffs on top of a piston, where the valve fragments ended up? Fragments ended up on top of #4 piston, came from #1 intake valve. Weird stuff goes on inside an engine!!
Wow that's good news.
I "lost" an intake bolt washer once.
I wasn't so lucky.
Beat up the head and ended up getting a knock after that.

73 nova,3515#(all steel)Pump gas!(91octane)406ci N/A, best 1/4,1.45 '60,[email protected],10.6 @ 122.38, short shifting,NO tuning!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WHT/73 is online now  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 3:05 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Cory
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wimberley, TX (SW of Austin)
Posts: 4,659
Re: Interesting valve failure

I'm no expert but it seems to me that the valve broke during the compression stroke on #1 and blew it into the intake and #4 sucked it in during the intake stroke. 54# of boost would have "pushed" the valve fragments to the first area of differential pressure.

Firing order 1-8-4-3 etc. #8 Had already finished it's intake stroke so #4 following close behind got the prize.
427L88, shovelrick, rp930 and 1 others like this.
dream66 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 3:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Greg
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petal, MS
Posts: 1,060
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream66 View Post
I'm no expert but it seems to me that the valve broke during the compression stroke on #1 and blew it into the intake and #4 sucked it in during the intake stroke. 54# of boost would have "pushed" the valve fragments to the first area of differential pressure.

Firing order 1-8-4-3 etc. #8 Had already finished it's intake stroke so #4 following close behind got the prize.
Kinda my theory also. Now as to WHY it broke, really no good idea on that. Titanium intakes, Iconel exhaust valves I believe, but I’m not 100% sure.
427L88 likes this.

Greg C.
1969 Chevelle Malibu
New, waaaay overcammed 496 "The Dud"
[email protected]
Iforgot is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 3:49 PM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,352
Re: Interesting valve failure

They say Ti dont do long, severe duty as well as steel. ?? I have NEVER seen a valve go that way.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 4:24 PM
Senior Tech Team
Rick
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Langhorne, Pa
Posts: 4,189
Exclamation Re: Interesting valve failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
This is from a buddy’s pro charged 565, happened during testing and we tore it down last night. Engine had about 6-7 330’ passes on it since everything was new. Not a cheap piece at all, “best of the best” kind of deal. Not gonna say who’s car, but it is a no prep outlaw car.
54# boost, EFI(methanol), engine died at 7800 rpm 1.7 seconds into the run. He killed it, and still coasted to a 5.50 1/8th mike et!!
Any ideas?
Honestly, sometimes stuff just breaks. Small defect in the material that you would never see or know about would be my guess

1967 Chevelle Malibu 4 door


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


The 7.99 at 173mph pass:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


8.02 at 171mph:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Calculated Risk is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 8:08 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Franklinville N.J.
Posts: 1,802
Garage
Re: Interesting valve failure

Seen this many times on Diesel engines. Problem is with in the valve. Either as Rick says a defective valve or just Ti valves being at the end of the life span with aggressive ramps slamming the valves closed at high rpms. Just Google 2012 6.7L diesel there valves look just like these and they were all defective parts and at only 3000 rpms.
rp930 likes this.

64 Chevelle 496
64 F100 Street Rod with BBC /Chevy trapped in a ford body
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
StevenS is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 8:51 PM
Senior Tech Team
Lang
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: West Hills California
Posts: 2,319
Garage
Re: Interesting valve failure

You would be surprised at what can fail and look just fine from the outside. I cannot remember how many "Fan" blades I removed from both GE and Pratt & Whitney engines that when Xrayed had Metal Fatigue/Cracks, and this was from engines that were still in service, but had timed out.

Ideas are like children: there are none so wonderful as your own.
langss is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 9:17 PM
Senior Tech Team
Bill R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gold Canyon, AZ
Posts: 2,808
Re: Interesting valve failure

My guess is that the lifters were being "tossed" at full open, caused by the lifter not following the cam lobe as result of too high RPM range and/or wrong valve springs. When this happens, the valve tends to bounce off the seat as it closes resulting in valve and/or valve seat failure.

Bill
64 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe (original owner) car now has 427" BB, Jerico 5-spd. trans., Dana 60 rear end.

SAE Member (25+ years)
ASE Master Certified Engine Machinist
AERA Certified Professional Engine Machinist
engineguy is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 9:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Greg
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petal, MS
Posts: 1,060
Garage
Well..results are in-kinda.
Took #4 rod and piston out, ring lands not collapsed, really very very little “damage” at all.
Not gonna name the valve manufacturer, but they definitely want that set of intakes back and are red-labeling him a new set of intake valves, which I thought was pretty stand-up of them.
Springs are 430ish on the seat..every piece of this sucker was new 6 or 7 330’ passes ago. It honestly looks like it’s never been fired on the inside.
It’s in Scott Taylor’s ‘Track Doe’ Firebird, got a big ol’honkin Procharger on the front...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AED5AA3C-8D8F-4ACE-926D-9480EDBDA114_1553216073717.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	31.0 KB
ID:	589770   Click image for larger version

Name:	63EFD4BD-56F5-4C97-AC19-3B86F186CE30_1553216083650.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	62.5 KB
ID:	589772  

Greg C.
1969 Chevelle Malibu
New, waaaay overcammed 496 "The Dud"
[email protected]
Iforgot is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 19, 10:11 PM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,352
Re: Interesting valve failure

DANG!

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 19, 1:26 AM
Senior Tech Team
Vince
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 8,347
Re: Interesting valve failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iforgot View Post
Well..results are in-kinda.
Took #4 rod and piston out, ring lands not collapsed, really very very little “damage” at all.
Not gonna name the valve manufacturer, but they definitely want that set of intakes back and are red-labeling him a new set of intake valves, which I thought was pretty stand-up of them.
Springs are 430ish on the seat..every piece of this sucker was new 6 or 7 330’ passes ago. It honestly looks like it’s never been fired on the inside.
It’s in Scott Taylor’s ‘Track Doe’ Firebird, got a big ol’honkin Procharger on the front...
thats a strange looking break
it looks fresh
i wonder if dye penetrate would have found this defect...

68-Malibu 427bbc/t4oo/3.73-12bolt/pro charger f1-r
VinceS427bb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Valve adjustment Mild454 Engine 21 Dec 23rd, 18 10:51 AM
188 heads max potential untouched? genoapb Engine 32 Dec 21st, 18 4:41 PM
Worn valve guides...repair options? DK77TA Performance 11 Oct 20th, 18 10:04 AM
NEW - Wilwood Master cyl and Adjustable Prop valve! MCB Sponsors 10 Nov 19th, 13 12:21 PM
454 valve keeper fails, but valve not bent? CoolBlueGlow Engine 25 Dec 16th, 12 4:57 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome