I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake? - Page 5 - Chevelle Tech
Performance Our High Performance area

View Poll Results: Cam, Heads+Cam, or Turbo?
Upgrade Cam only 3 11.54%
AFR Heads + custom Cam 17 65.38%
Single turbo 5 19.23%
just spray it 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 3:29 AM
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George
 
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
I've never used that calc before. Kinda interesting, but when I pop in 1.63 60ft (my best) it comes up with 11.73 @ 112.99 Even if I pop in a more mediocre 1.68, it still comes up with 12.02. My best is 12.18

My ZZ383 has never quite run the numbers I was hoping. User Dave427 on here had one in his car, running the GMPP single-plane 4 bbl intake and a probably a more optimized chassis setup, and I think he went 11.80s @ 110. I think Hot Rod put one in a drag-optimized Chevelle as part of a large crate motor test and they went 11.70s @ 111. I could only muster 109 in absolutely ideal conditions. I *do* have suspicions about my Stealthram being a flow restriction based on MAP sensor readings during drag passes, so there's that.

But don't misunderstand, as just a regular driver on the road, it's great! I like it a lot and would recommend it to others. It idles very smooth and is just strong in the mid range. I've gotten 18mpg with this setup too.

-Dave
isnt the Vortecpro formula....1320/mph=et?
1320/109=12.11....you are pretty much right there.

1320/112=11.78....how much more hp to add 3 mph? Mine runs 112 with a best of 11.77.

Your car launches good....just needs more power.

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post #62 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 9:27 AM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

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Originally Posted by Geo71 View Post
isnt the Vortecpro formula....1320/mph=et?
1320/109=12.11....you are pretty much right there.

1320/112=11.78....how much more hp to add 3 mph? Mine runs 112 with a best of 11.77.

Your car launches good....just needs more power.
Here is a online calculator....not see how good it is though.

Wallace Racing- HP To Go Another MPH Calculator

If Im understanding this correct, he is only going to need 1 maybe 2 horsepower....he can get that from tuning.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #63 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 1:23 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Isn't 1 mph at his cars weight about equal to 20 flywheel HP?
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post #64 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 1:43 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

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Originally Posted by pockets View Post
Isn't 1 mph at his cars weight about equal to 20 flywheel HP?
I myself Kerry am not sure...that Wallace calculator may be misleading.

...still think that working on the car and tuning can yield that with out much other than a converter change.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.

Last edited by Aaron; Feb 15th, 19 at 2:06 PM.
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post #65 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 2:29 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pockets View Post
Isn't 1 mph at his cars weight about equal to 20 flywheel HP?
Did some research and that maybe correct.

Im hearing in the 11 second range....you need about 12 rwhp to gain a tenth or 1 mph.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #66 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 3:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo71 View Post
isnt the Vortecpro formula....1320/mph=et?
1320/109=12.11....you are pretty much right there.

1320/112=11.78....how much more hp to add 3 mph? Mine runs 112 with a best of 11.77.

Your car launches good....just needs more power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I myself Kerry am not sure...that Wallace calculator may be misleading.

...still think that working on the car and tuning can yield that with out much other than a converter change.
I'm doubtful. I've already dialed in the timing, first at the dragstrip going for best MPH. Tested at 32, 34, 36. 34 was fastest. I later confirmed that during a dyno session, 34 made best power. My AFR is already in the mid 12s at WOT, and my car leaves the line pretty well, although this may be where gains could still be coaxed out of it. But I don't think there's much low-hanging fruit to be had. I'm open to specific suggestions, though.

-Dave
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'70 Chevelle ZZ383/700r4/3.55, [email protected] -- Megasquirt2-Extra, Holley Stealthram / Hotchkis A-arms / Hotchkis Springs / B-body 12" brakes / 1.25" F-body swaybar
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post #67 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 19, 3:14 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
I'm doubtful. I've already dialed in the timing, first at the dragstrip going for best MPH. Tested at 32, 34, 36. 34 was fastest. I later confirmed that during a dyno session, 34 made best power. My AFR is already in the mid 12s at WOT, and my car leaves the line pretty well, although this may be where gains could still be coaxed out of it. But I don't think there's much low-hanging fruit to be had. I'm open to specific suggestions, though.

-Dave
I see Dave...

What is rolling resistance like?

Do you have 6 inches of travel in the front suspension?

What spring and shock package are you running? I see some of this in your signature...

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #68 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 10:44 AM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Dave

Have you had the zz383 apart any?

Any idea what the head volume of the piston is?

Has me wondering on running some DCR calculations...

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #69 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Dave

Have you had the zz383 apart any?

Any idea what the head volume of the piston is?

Has me wondering on running some DCR calculations...
I have not.

This is the piston part number (set of 8), 12499103. Listed as 18cc. Heads are advertised as 62cc. Advertised compression ratio is 9.7:1

At Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12499103

-Dave

'70 Chevelle ZZ383/700r4/3.55, [email protected] -- Megasquirt2-Extra, Holley Stealthram / Hotchkis A-arms / Hotchkis Springs / B-body 12" brakes / 1.25" F-body swaybar
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post #70 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 12:05 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Dave

Im going to share two cam builds that I have done with a zz4 and a 383 that should give you extra power to achieve your 11.99 to 11.50 time slip.

This would be just a cam and intake swap. The cam is a UDHarold suggestion for a street 350 and 383. Harold recommended it for my zz4 and my Dads 383. We both have similar heads to you...so the heads are a wash. The intake should boost your mid range torque as well.

From my research the zz383 has a-12 dished piston in it....which puts you in great shape.

I would pull your engine and get the top end off and the cam out. Here is the cam I would purchase directly from Luanti.

Street Master Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Cam - Chevrolet Small Block 280/288 - Lunati Power

The cam comes on a 112 lsa. I would get it cut on a 110 or 108 LSA and if you have a step nose cam in the zz383 you can get that cut on the cam as well. You are going to have a higher DCR with either a 110 or 108 LSA. You should be ok with a good tune and cooling system. Like I have said, I have ran this combo in a zz4 and 383 with no problems. If you run the 108 LSA your DCR will be around 8.4 and if you run the 110 LSA it would be around 8.3. This should give you a cranking compression of around 195 to 215 psi.

Once you have the deck clean and the cam and lifters installed, I would reinstall the Fast Burns with the Fel Pro 1094 as your head gasket. This shim gasket should raise your compression to around 10.5 to 1. The 1094 is a shim gasket with a 4.16 bore and .015 thickness...should give you a nice tight quench as well. I would run a 160* thermostat....this should help keep the engine running at 180*. Ours runs this in the hot Florida summers.

I would top the heads off with the Edelbrock Air Gap. This intake will give you more meat in the mid range, where you need it, than the single plane. If you run a one inch spacer on the Air Gap, you should be within a few horsepower of the single plane too. I have ran both of these and found this true. Since you trap at 5000 you will benefit from the extra torque of the dual plane. Hood clearance can be close with the space, but it does work in a 67 Chevelle.

This combo will need a great timing curve, something like this. Initial of 16* to 18*and a mechanical curve of 16* to 18*. Your total will probably be 34*. Your advance can should be around 12* and should give you a idle of 30*. Your cruise should be around 46*. This is a conservative curve and you could use more timing from the advance can, but its not worth it to me.

Ours is topped off with a Holley 3310. Your fuel injection set up should yield a few more ponies.

My Dad drives his car and does not race it. His 383 breaks the tires loose at a roll with his M20. He runs a 3:55 gear and a 255 60 rear tire. He drives it do errands and to the golf course. We have not had it on the dyno either so we don't know the exact rpm redline of the this cam combo in a 383, but we think its 5800 to 6300 somewhere in there. Now my Dad does run the 112 LSA, because he did not want the low speed bucking with the 4 speed.

IF you have any questions about this combo or cam and or the tune...just let me know.

If you spend money on the Luanti cam, lifters, pushrods, roller rockers if you need them and hardware you probably will be out 1000 to 1500.

Then all your going to need is a Air Gap and a custom converter....based on the new cams print out off the chassis dyno. This will cost you another 1300. So you will be over your budget some.

I feel doing something similar will help you get your 11.99 to 11.50 time slip.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #71 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 12:15 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
I have not.

This is the piston part number (set of 8), 12499103. Listed as 18cc. Heads are advertised as 62cc. Advertised compression ratio is 9.7:1

At Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12499103

-Dave
If in deed you have a -18 dished piston you will have a compression of 9.8 to 1 with the Fel Pro 1094 gasket.

If you use my cam on a 108 LSA you will have a DCR of almost 8.0.

If you use my cam on a 110 LSA you will have a DCR of 7.8.

These are a little low, but doable. Your just giving up some power if you run a lower DCR.

On pump gas builds a lot of people run 8.1 to 8.3 DCR.....but please remember the DCR is just a tool....it does not define a good combo or build and should not be used as deciding factor on a build.

You could mill the head 1 cc to bring up the compression too. If you have a -18 piston. This would bring the DCR up slightly, but might not be worth the money to mill that much. You would need at least to lightly shave or mill the heads if you have them off to make sure they are straight...just to straighten them up. They usually just take a fraction off.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
Aaron is offline  
post #72 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 6:27 PM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Sorry....didn't realize I posted my builds TWICE on here....I guess I got carried away!!!

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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post #73 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 19, 9:56 PM
 
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Hello
If the cam and heads are going to get you to your goals than go for it. But if you are like most of us you'll be wanting more. The more wild you get with a natural aspirated engine the harder the street driving becomes. This is why I went turbo.

With a turbo the car drives normal around the streets till you get into it. I have twins and at idle vaccum gauges reads 15 to 18.

Yes there maybe some more expenses but I'd rather save up some more and eat all the cake.

Brendan
TT 70 chevelle
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post #74 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 19, 12:00 AM
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The 160 thermostat to use is the EMP Stewart #300.

I would think the Straub 223/237 cam would make more midrange power than many others. Considering it’s designed for the Vortec/fast burn head flow.

For springs I believe the PAC 1211X beehive, with 1787-16 tool steel retainers, 648-16 locks, and 4705-16 spring seats.
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post #75 of 82 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 19, 12:22 AM
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Re: I got $2500 -- turbo or AFR heads/cam/intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pockets View Post
The 160 thermostat to use is the EMP Stewart #300.

I would think the Straub 223/237 cam would make more midrange power than many others. Considering its designed for the Vortec/fast burn head flow.

For springs I believe the PAC 1211X beehive, with 1787-16 tool steel retainers, 648-16 locks, and 4705-16 spring seats.
Excellent recommends Kerry! I would think a cam from Straub would make more power than the Harold cam I have. More current profile! I think the cam I have is from a mid 90's time period....but Chris was not around when I bought them. Didn't know who he was then, back in the mid to late 2000's.

67 chevelle malibu / SS/ custom

Currently undergoing a metal work to remove all rust, if I ever get there.

Cant decide on prostreet or cruiser with a 4 speed.
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