HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 5:32 AM
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Vince
 
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

But you have to ask yourself...if this is a lower rpm deal, do you really need the additional hassle of worrying about lash? I've changed combos so many times now that I'm having difficulties remembering...but I remember running the venerable XR286 SR cam and was around 125mph, and the car still runs about the same with a 224/228 HR. Its just louder now LOL.


I did pick up 3mph with just a lifter change from Crane HYD roller lifters to SR lifters which is significant when I had the 454. But I wonder if running the GM 4 qt pan was contributing to some kind of aeration issue and causing bleed down of the HYD lifters.

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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 5:33 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRV CRW View Post
Here's my MJ 467
4.310 x 4.00, 9.7 compression, 781 ovalport GM heads ported 2.190/1.880, reproduction GM low rise LS6 intake manifold, 780 CFM factory LS6 carb. 228/238/.553/.578/111/106 Hyd roller, solid roller lifters lashed @ .010/.012. Modified GM 4 quart oil pan, M77 oil pump. Tested on 91 octane gas. Maxima 10/40 oil.
Hi Gary,was the dyno test done with manifolds or headers?


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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 6:47 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Been doing this on some of the builds do to noisy HYD Morel lifters,Plus a solid is more dependable IMHO Customers with OEM with a spider or SHP Blocks we have changed over to the GM HYD lifters and the noise goes away.

Been working with an engineer from Johnson lifters and now they offer a HYD with pin oiling, Also they will be coming out with a .904 Chevy HYD lifters

ALLLL GM 502 and 572 run their lifters and no problems and in the ARCA series same lifters no issues.

Its nice having HYD lifters where it does not matter what oil you use. LOL
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 6:59 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

You mean all that vR-1 I got on sale wont be needed!

Anyway, Gary's power numbers are down a few ponies and ft lbs with the solids as Mark indicated. Who knew? Vince, setting lash is not a big hassle at all, plus we nave to inspect the valvetrain once in a bit anyway, No biggie.
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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 9:01 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
Hi Gary,was the dyno test done with manifolds or headers?
Chris,

I remember you mentioning it and I asked but Mark but he didn't have any stock exhaust manifolds so he used his headers.

What's your estimate on additional power loss?

Gary
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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 9:14 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRV CRW View Post
Chris,

I remember you mentioning it and I asked but Mark but he didn't have any stock exhaust manifolds so he used his headers.

What's your estimate on additional power loss?

Gary
Going to be 50+ HP like it fell it out of a tree.

Did Mark touch the plenum divider or leave as is.
Were the headers 2" ?


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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 19, 7:25 PM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
Going to be 50+ HP like it fell it out of a tree.

Did Mark touch the plenum divider or leave as is.
Were the headers 2" ?
No modifications to intake, don't know what size headers he used.

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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 19, 7:06 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

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Originally Posted by CRV CRW View Post
No modifications to intake, don't know what size headers he used.
I believe Mark has 2" headers. Either way,even with manifolds your engine will put a big smile on your face when you drop the hammer.
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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 19, 3:52 PM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
Alan, I left the vacuum guage mounted in the car after I did all my carb tuning. I use it as the dead true signal a valve is amiss is why, I dont trust my ears, I trust my vac guage. Once it start fluttering, something's moved. Well, sometimes hot fuel causes a thin idle, but its pretty foolproof. Also helped when I lost the intake gasket , internally, playing where is the vac leak? In the galley!

So I ran the valves on mine today with 262 miles on the engine. I only checked them because I’m trying to quantify what is the “normal” sound of the valve train at a certain clearance, so I can mentally benchmark it for future observation.

Anyway, when I set them on the stand before it went in the car, I had them at .008/.010” and I was VERY particular about adjusting the intakes when the exhaust just started to open, maybe 25%, and I adjusted the exhausts when the intake was closing at about 50% or so. On the stand, with a ratchet on the balancer I could easily get it where I wanted it.

Today, just using the starter to bump it into position and “getting it close enough”, they were all really close. 2 valves were about .001” tighter and a few of the exhausts were about .005” loose. I can easily contribute this to not having the lobes is EXACTLY the same position as last time, not to mention the rest of the black grease leaving the rocker arm trunions etc.. Not to mention just the “feel” of the feeler gauge dragging across the valve stem.

I loosened the two tighter ones by .001”. I left all the exh where they were at .0105”. I feel like this is REALLY splitting hairs here but, now that I have a method for checking them in the car, I’ll do it the same way and watch for trends.

Took me exactly an hour and 20 mins, start to finish...including clean up. Not bad for some piece of mind.

I won’t check them again for a while now unless I hear a reason too...seems like they are holding pretty well.

Now where is my Xanax?
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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 19, 4:06 PM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Gary, that's a great dyno sheet. have you driven the car yet? It's going to be very strong. got drag radials or similar? regular tires won't stand a chance. pure murder for them. You'll hear the screaming as they die.

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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 19, 6:02 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

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Originally Posted by ShouldntBeHere View Post
So I ran the valves on mine today with 262 miles on the engine. I only checked them because I’m trying to quantify what is the “normal” sound of the valve train at a certain clearance, so I can mentally benchmark it for future observation.

Anyway, when I set them on the stand before it went in the car, I had them at .008/.010” and I was VERY particular about adjusting the intakes when the exhaust just started to open, maybe 25%, and I adjusted the exhausts when the intake was closing at about 50% or so. On the stand, with a ratchet on the balancer I could easily get it where I wanted it.

Today, just using the starter to bump it into position and “getting it close enough”, they were all really close. 2 valves were about .001” tighter and a few of the exhausts were about .005” loose. I can easily contribute this to not having the lobes is EXACTLY the same position as last time, not to mention the rest of the black grease leaving the rocker arm trunions etc.. Not to mention just the “feel” of the feeler gauge dragging across the valve stem.

I loosened the two tighter ones by .001”. I left all the exh where they were at .0105”. I feel like this is REALLY splitting hairs here but, now that I have a method for checking them in the car, I’ll do it the same way and watch for trends.

Took me exactly an hour and 20 mins, start to finish...including clean up. Not bad for some piece of mind.

I won’t check them again for a while now unless I hear a reason too...seems like they are holding pretty well.

Now where is my Xanax?
When I ran a hybrid (did my hydraulics the same way) I did it by cylinder by firing order both valves at the same time. Requires a little setup to validate it. Indexed balancer with TDC for each cylinder marked. Using a dial indicator you can ID area on the cam where both lobes are on the base before TDC at end of the compression stroke. I used edge of the timing tab (18* ??) as a set point.


And even if you had any measured lift showing up due to being on clearance ramps (highly unlikely) you factor that in. I guess my point being what you said about "getting it close enough" goes away as you define a precise point of reference. If this makes sense. The variable becomes timing chain stretch, but it would have to become pretty sloppy to become a factor at which point you're pulling the front of the motor off anyway.

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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 1:11 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

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Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
Gary, that's a great dyno sheet. have you driven the car yet? It's going to be very strong. got drag radials or similar? regular tires won't stand a chance. pure murder for them. You'll hear the screaming as they die.
Thanks Tom, it's going in a completely restored stock/factory appearing LS6 car with 14 inch poly Wide Ovals. May go Wide Oval radials, we'll see. I bought the car fully restored with CRV engine and matching vin near the oil filter being a Van Nuys build. I have no build sheet but it is restored well, looks like new. It appears someone spent a lot of money doing the restoration. That's where I'm starting from. Well it kept breaking rocker studs and arms, all on the even (passenger) side. After pulling a head, to get out a too deep to remove broken rocker stud, I discovered it is also already at .100 over. So I decided to just take the engine out and go with a MJ engine. I wanted the solid lifters to retain some of the original sound, spirit, theme of the LS6. It has an M22 and 4.10 so it will live in high RPMs and I am aiming for the stability of the solid lifters for that too. Hydraulic roller cam is less strenuous than a full solid roller cam too, so it's a little give and take. Anyway I'm using a low rise intake with a Holley 780 CA carb (Eric put one together for me with the CA 4491 type front bowl) and stock exhaust. According to many here I will lose 50hp with the intake and another 50hp with the exhaust. The dyno was done with the stock intake and carb so it sounds like I'll still be over 500hp. It should be a handful in the streets. I believe Mark did a great job with this build. It is very close to many of his other dyno tested 467 builds with better intake/carbs so I am quite happy.

Anyway I was planning on sending the original motor to Mark to check out, and see what we can do. I also have a 1970 El Camino that I could put the MJ engine in if we can salvage the CRV motor. If so I can swap to air gap intake and headers and have an approx 600hp engine for the El Camino. I can utilize Mark's build either way.

The MJ engine will be here Friday so it is getting closer. I plan on using all of the brackets, pulleys, and other peripheral items off of the original engine so hopefully it will all work out. The adventures of the Chevelles.
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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 8:16 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

Gary,I have to say much appreciated that you posted your build's dyno results. Actually indicates that repro low rise LS6 intake can still get it done and look correct-even with a port mismact. Good to have those numbers
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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 10:30 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

mr 4 speed

Is running stock manifolds (with some porting) really costing me 50hp over headers with closed 2 1/2” exhaust? I really hate losing that much but I love the stock look.

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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 10:42 AM
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Re: HR cam w/ SR lifters pro's & cons

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mr 4 speed

Is running stock manifolds (with some porting) really costing me 50hp over headers with closed 2 1/2” exhaust?
absolutely. it has been documented on this board by a few dyno tests. Both L78 builds.
With my own testing at the dragstrip I went from 97-98 MPH w/manifolds to 102-103 MPH w/headers and no other changes.Same exhaust,same weather conditions,no changes in timing,etc.
And it was a HUGE seat of the pants difference. And that was with 2.56 gears. 1970 LS5 type build with 223/[email protected] .525/.550 112 LSA flat tappet hydraulic.


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