454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241 - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 19, 4:54 PM Thread Starter
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454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

So I am patiently awaiting a PM response from a well known cam designer here (regarding the cam below) and thought I would post this to the board to get your thoughts as well. After much searching here, it seems like a fairly solid combo but I could be missing something. Looking for thoughts on the compatibility of the cam (pretty sure its gtg), and recommendations on roller lifters, and a stall converter and carb to match.


Clay Smith Grind # HR-8800-9-CSR
Adv. Dur 288/300
.050” Duration 229/241
.200” Duration 145/151
Lift .590/.570
Centers 105/113
LSA 109

...with the following build:

My car is ~4000# in full trim with me, a spare tire, jack, and a fairly empty gas tank according to track scale.

10:1 CR, 454 +.030 (~460 cid)
Air Gap intake (have a spare Wieand Stealth RP from previous combo )
Carb undecided (have a spare 770 SA and QJ on hand. May purchase an 850 QF?)
781's 2.19/1.88, 118cc chamber (measured), long slot steel rockers, mild clean up (no porting), gasket match
Sealed Power Hyper -22cc
Appropriate head gasket to set quench to ~.039-.040 or so (block has not been decked, need to check piston depth)
Stock crank (cast) and rods w/ARP bolts
Desired max RPM 6000



Replace existing 1-5/8" headers and 2.25" exhaust with 1.75" headers into 3" collector, 2.5" all the way back, mufflers undecided...

TH400, (soon to be) rebuilt with Hughes Performance kit, upgraded 34 element sprag
Replace stock converter with 3000 stall converter ... open to recommendations here. Not sure exactly what would be best fit for the engine.

8.02 open 3.36 rear gear on a 26" tire (215/70R14). This whole set up may get replaced (another story) but I would like to stay with the same gear. Stock suspension all around with poly bushings front and back.

If you need more detailed please ask. This is a street/strip car that I drive like I stole it about 1000 miles a year. It cruises down the highway at about 3000 rpm. I ran ethanol free 93 octane for about 13 years on my previous 9.3cr 215/219 peanut port build. Great little combo but I am ready for a massive somewhat budget oriented change while I have everything out of the car. I believe this will out perform my previous combo. Trying to get into low 12's eventually (whenever I upgrade the rear end).


Thanks,
-Kevin

-Kevin
1965 Chevy Biscayne
<removed> 454cid, "peanut ports", Voodoo 60201
<coming soon> 460cid, Brodix RRO 270, 229/241 Hydraulic Roller
TH400, 3.36 Stock Rearend
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post #2 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 19, 5:08 PM
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Gary
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

i would run a single pattern cam if i were you on 108. the 12 deg more exh duration will hurt midrange torque on the street and i think the strip to with the 331 gear.if you want to err on the drag strip side its a pretty good cam
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post #3 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 19, 8:36 PM
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MARK
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Nice combination!

Machined GM production heads
Oil pan modifications
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post #4 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 19, 8:43 PM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Love it with my combination.

461" BBC 11.25:1 Compression
840 Rec Heads (2.25/1.88) AED 850 HO carb
Orig Exhaust Manifolds
Straub (Clay Smith) Hyd Roller cam, .050 229/241 .600/.569 109.
TH400, 3500 stall, 4.11 12 bolt posi
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post #5 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 2:09 AM
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Eric
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

I have the Clay Smith Old school cam in a 468 with 781 heads, Stealth intake and 10.4:1 compression. In my 66 Chevelle it runs mid 11's with no major tuning yet. Fun set up on the street and very docile for daily driver duty.
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post #6 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 3:43 AM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Think ot will be a nice combo!
Mr gasket makes steel shim gaskets that should work if you need a .020” thick headgasket.
I would run the 770 on the stealth intake.

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4” wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
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post #7 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 9:38 AM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Your set up is pretty close to BigRed`s.

I have the same motor parts except I use an UltraDyne 233/233 @ .050 .625/.625 109 Sep. hyd roller and the pistons are TRW forged.

For the carb I have a BG 850 Sports Claw with annular boosters. Runs pretty smooth with it.

Exhaust is 1-3/4 " headers into 3" X-pipe with DynoMax UltraFlo oval mufflers.
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Steve
68 BISCAYNE 4060lb
468-9.4:1
1.76 60FT Drag Radials
11.69 [email protected] 116.30 MPH
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post #8 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 9:53 AM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnicholson View Post
i would run a single pattern cam if i were you on 108. the 12 deg more exh duration will hurt midrange torque on the street and i think the strip to with the 331 gear.if you want to err on the drag strip side its a pretty good cam
That cam is designed for those heads. They dont flow well on the exhaust side, which is why you want the added duration.
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post #9 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 11:05 AM
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Gary
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

i would think about running 1.8 rockers on the intake
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post #10 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 12:37 PM
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Dan
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

I run that cam in my 498 BBC. Made 551hp & 602ft/lbs. It's a nice piece.

Dan
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post #11 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 1:49 PM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Looks like a great combo. Do not be afraid to increase to 3" exhaust, at least to the mufflers. It is a miss conception that 3" pipes kill low end torque over 2.5. I have a mild .030 over 454 and I gained low end and mid range torque upgrading to 3" pipes, and gained very little on the top end.

I think the big issue you have is that rear end and those tiny tires. Burnouts be plenty, but you'll be left at every stop light haha.
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post #12 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 2:27 PM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

you have a pretty good combination there. with your set up you will lose torque to 4k or so with that cam over a single pattern cam with 230. the clay smith cam will overtake it about 4800. it will be quicker and drive better on the street with the single pattern and mph a bit better with the clay smith.even if you run a split cam 8 to 10 degrees is plenty. want a bit more top end run a bit larger single pattern
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post #13 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 3:10 PM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnicholson View Post
you have a pretty good combination there. with your set up you will lose torque to 4k or so with that cam over a single pattern cam with 230. the clay smith cam will overtake it about 4800. it will be quicker and drive better on the street with the single pattern and mph a bit better with the clay smith.even if you run a split cam 8 to 10 degrees is plenty. want a bit more top end run a bit larger single pattern
Why do you think single pattern cams make more torque? I also don't understand how going to a 1.8 rocker on the intake will improve street manners on a cam that already has a larger intake lobe.

A 229 intake lobe is relatively small already, and the 241 exhaust is a crutch for the poor flowing exhaust ports. To me that's a good combination for a broad torque curve

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

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post #14 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 3:19 PM
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
Why do you think single pattern cams make more torque? I also don't understand how going to a 1.8 rocker on the intake will improve street manners on a cam that already has a larger intake lobe.

A 229 intake lobe is relatively small already, and the 241 exhaust is a crutch for the poor flowing exhaust ports. To me that's a good combination for a broad torque curve



I have to agree.
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post #15 of 162 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 19, 3:39 PM
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Gary
 
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re: 454 (.030), 10:1cr, Air Gap, Brodix 270 RRO, Clay Smith 229/241

the short answer is opening the exhaust sooner cuts low and mid rpm torque production but helps higher rpm because the engine needs more time to get rid of the exhaust. in other words at lower rpm the engine has less cyl press opening the exh sooner. same basic thing happens on a narrow lsa like 108 compared to a wider one like 112. i think the cam would work better with a little more intake duration and lift is why i said 1.8 rockers would help. this is all info from cam people smarter than me and has proven true for me. this info is for an engine like this that has headers and a free flowing exh. ask straub or some of the other knowledgeable cam guys
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