BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank? - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 9:15 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

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Originally Posted by carpoor View Post
. A local machinist recently showed me a set of "E" brand and "S" brand rods, new in the box. One set had a difference of 30g between the lightest and heaviest rod in the box. The other set was 20+ between the two..

Not sure where your guy is buying these rods but I have probably balanced 50 sets or Eagle I beam rods and they are almost always within a gram or two. Probably the worst I have seen was 5 grams.



Have only seen a few sets of Scats but they were the same way.



Both are typically far better right out of the box than the stock GM ones ever dreamed of being.

Bill Koustenis
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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 9:20 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

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Originally Posted by carpoor View Post
. A friend offered me a set of stock GM rods from a late 70s GM truck 454. But, not sure they would be worth investing time and money into.

I agree. A set of ARP bolts is probably $50 and any machine shop worth their while is going to charge you at least $175 to install the bolts and resize the rods along with checking them for straightness etc. At that point you are not very far from what a set of the Scat or Eagle stock type rods cost.

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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 9:23 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
Not sure where your guy is buying these rods but I have probably balanced 50 sets or Eagle I beam rods and they are almost always within a gram or two. Probably the worst I have seen was 5 grams.



Have only seen a few sets of Scats but they were the same way.



Both are typically far better right out of the box than the stock GM ones ever dreamed of being.
I agree with Bill, a Scat or Eagle I beam rod will be perfect. The Scat Pro Stock rod is fine but I had Scat Pro Comp series I beam rods in my 355 small block and Eagle H beam rods in my race engines for the last 15 years.
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 10:53 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

Gary, Bill, et al..... for the typical L72 or even L88 ( a bit rowdier), what is the .200" + rod length worth , dyno wise? I'm still running 50 yr old L88 rods in the current 427, which will stay together, yet for the "last" 427 Old red car will see....?

I will say I spent a bit more $$ to get pistons ( SRPs) radically lighter than the old TRWs, so lighter pistons are good I know, but HOW good?

Also piston selection in 3,76" stroke isnt all that great. Where does the 6.3" + Wiseco slug put us compression wise with typical 116cc chambers?

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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 1:24 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

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Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
I would talk any and all of my customers out of building a pressed-pin build any more due to the fact you can buy 8 new rods with bushings and ARP bolts for under 350.00 for most BBs. And if pistons are on the menu you have the log-rod option in many cases.

This allows assembling the unit without having to press the pistons/rods together and is a "positive" when chasing HP.

The cost of a set of ARP rod bolts and the cost of installing the bolts and resizing 8 rods comes very close to the cost of 8 new Eagle/Scat bushed rods. We rarely sell just rod bolts anymore!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. For example a piston/rod pkge including 2618 forged pistons, Mahle file-fit rings, Eagle/Scat bushed rods, and set of rod brgs, can be had for under 1000.00 for everything and you end up with all NEW components. Most times a lighter-weight piston and ring combo as a plus!

Gary,
Care to explain the positive part. I would like to hear your opinion.

Thanks for sharing,

92Camaro
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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 2:01 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
Not sure where your guy is buying these rods but I have probably balanced 50 sets or Eagle I beam rods and they are almost always within a gram or two. Probably the worst I have seen was 5 grams.



Have only seen a few sets of Scats but they were the same way.



Both are typically far better right out of the box than the stock GM ones ever dreamed of being.
Good info, Bill. I'm really, really curious, now, to hear what some of the other builders are finding on this.
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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 4:50 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carpoor View Post
A local machinist recently showed me a set of "E" brand and "S" brand rods, new in the box. One set had a difference of 30g between the lightest and heaviest rod in the box. The other set was 20+ between the two. This was despite the sheets included saying that they were +/- 1g. RPM.

Thanks in advance.
Not going to happen
The only way this could happen is if said machinist is buying seconds or open sets from the cheapest place he can find or someone is mixing sets along the way.
I cannot speak to Eagle I rarely use them but the few H beam sets I dealt with were close in weight

Now as far as Scat these I can speak to so a little factual info..
Over the years the Scat rods have varied in weight by a substantial amount in COMPLETE sets (one set to another)
But in the 20+ years I've been dealing with them I have have never had a matched set direct from Scat which is where I purchase them vary more than a few grams & this is a lot of rods

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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 10:09 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

for some reason " ATTSA LOTTA RODS" sounds darn funny! Well in " NY-ese".

Mike , do you think its worth the added expense to shorten skirts and lengthen rods ( actually sounds yummy in a different context ) for a mild 550 HP 427? Longevity and endurance is another characteristic I'd like to build into it, at every step.

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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 11:03 PM
 
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

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Originally Posted by 92Camaro View Post
Gary,
Care to explain the positive part. I would like to hear your opinion.

Thanks for sharing,

92Camaro
Hey 92, floating wrist pins (used with bushed rods) are retained with spiral-loc snap rings creating a positive lock to retain the pin over the just a press fit which is in a typical piston rod assembly. Its a good upgrade to consider.
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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 11:23 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

my question would be does anyone make an off the shelf 427 piston for a 250 long rod? custom pistons are 800 bucks plus. dyno difference would be basically a wash as far as the rod length difference
427L88 and Saltherring like this.
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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 18, 11:43 PM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
for some reason " ATTSA LOTTA RODS" sounds darn funny! Well in " NY-ese".

Mike , do you think its worth the added expense to shorten skirts and lengthen rods ( actually sounds yummy in a different context ) for a mild 550 HP 427? Longevity and endurance is another characteristic I'd like to build into it, at every step.
Gene
To me it is a win-win deal although I don't think it is something that's going to give you any noticeable power improvement to write home about,,,
Longer rod both puts the piston up in the bore slightly further & gives you more room for counterweight if needed which is a good thing especially for strokers. Also makes the piston a little more stable because the leverage is slightly better being closer to the top.
And of course the piston in most cases gets lighter also not a bad thing which gets better as RPM goes up

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnicholson View Post
my question would be does anyone make an off the shelf 427 piston for a 250 long rod? custom pistons are 800 bucks plus. dyno difference would be basically a wash as far as the rod length difference
Yes there are pistons depending of course on your desired compression
Also most piston companies will make a single change like a pin move for a very nominal fee & there is at least one that I deal with a lot that will do any single change like bore size, ring pack, & pin move for free.

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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 5:16 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

any single change like bore size, ring pack, & pin move for free.

Mike, is that to you as a dealer or to any joe blow (like me) that comes along?

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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 5:46 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

LOL the wolves are counting sheep....

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE POWER..... AND IF YOU USE THAT POWER BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!
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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 6:26 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

When we built the 540", got a great buy on a Mahle Piston/Ring Package and used an Eagle Crank and Rods. IIRC, there was very little machining required to balance the assembly. I've been to quite a few forge shops over the years in both the US and Europe, once the presses are in place and the dies are made (which is where the real money costs occur) the cost to produce a forging is low. Die manufacturing has benefited from the implementation of technology just like everything else, forgings come out of the presses with much cleaner parting lines and requiring a lot less final machine work.


I could see the benefit to rebuilding a stock HiPo rod, but rebuilding a stock rod doesn't make a lot of sense to the consumer. Now an engine builder, that machining cost is captured as revenue so yes it makes sense. Guess it depends on which side of the transaction you are looking at.

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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 9:24 AM
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Re: BBC 6.135" rods that won't break the bank?

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Originally Posted by GRN69CHV View Post

I could see the benefit to rebuilding a stock HiPo rod, but rebuilding a stock rod doesn't make a lot of sense to the consumer. Now an engine builder, that machining cost is captured as revenue so yes it makes sense. Guess it depends on which side of the transaction you are looking at.
Hi Joe, you "nailed" that one good!!

Most shops doing this for living with bills to pay would much rather resize rods and sell the bolts than sell a set of new rods. It is really common sense for the smaller shops. On occasion when we do resize old rods they also get "magged" first, by the time you tally it all up it's much cheaper to get new rods. Comparing apples-to-apples if you're comfortable with pressed-pins you can get new rods for less than the cost of "fixing" the old ones.

We would much rather sell the rods (possibly making $40.00 on a set) and have a better build than using 40+ year old rods and STILL requiring a pressed-pin. You'd also be surprised the number of used rods have pin end issues where the press-fit is no longer any good and it will take O/S pins to fix correctly?? I know this is an area many shops simply overlook.

(Add) To answer one question above about pressed vs floaters, the amount of HP "gain" would be negligible BUT, the floaters are on the "positive" side when chasing HP numbers! There are always negatives and positives on these builds regardless of the chosen parts.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We are involved in so many 100% stock-appearing restorations over here we are one of the few shops carrying a fairly large inventory of stroker kits for the pump-gas 396" AND the 427" platforms utilizing both 6.135" and 6.385" rods!

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