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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 2:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Originally Posted by stanca427 View Post
Ok I got the idea. Figure your car is not tubbed? If I were you I would look more this way then what your thinking:

632 870hp

I'm sure they can get 900 out of it AND has a nice warranty as well. But almost 900Hp with the 2 year warranty all under $13,000 is very attractive!

I see more and more shops offering a warranty even on there race engines. This is making the shop stuff more appealing these days.

If your still wanting the short stroke, I would copy that 476 with some updated parts. Less problems trying to hook off the line and let her eat in the top end. Like cstraub said, tq is nice if you can hook all that from a standstill? If you roll out and RPM more, even with 3.73, you run fast.

Yet your 4 speed and 3.73 isn't what most "grudge" guys run. But I get what your doing.

$$$ wise, Nyes is very hard to beat. That's why I posted the link.

Stan
A 632 will not fit under the stock hood. That's the deal breaker for me

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 3:14 PM
 
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles View Post
Chris, care to elaborate on the high revving Morel hydraulic rollers? I have a Gen 5 Bowtie block with bushed bores for the big lifters that I am planning to use on this build and these might just be the hot ticket. Having a big block that could rev to 8 grand without the need to periodically check lash along with being easier on the entire valvetrain has a lot of appeal. What kind of spring pressures can they handle and is a rev kit or something along those lines needed to keep rollers in contact with lobes?

The 5270 that was put in Davey's engine and is in Bill Waters has a ton of advantages. This lifter will take 285# seat and 700# open load. Several EM contestants have used it in builds. This lifter has pressure fed oiling and a high pushrod seat height. This makes for a short pushrod which gives a very stable valvetrain at higher rpm.

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Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 4:18 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Thank you for your input. I do not agree with most of this, but that is fine. I see many agree with you, and many do not. That's everyone's choice.

But I do find it kind of insulting how you say someone is leaving something on the table, and not running as fast as he could without know nothing of the combo or class there running in? I guess guys like you do numerous 2.6Hp/inch motors?

I watch a lot of racing and been to a few tracks Mr. Foxwell, and I have yet to see your name on record setting heads up cars? Do you have any customers that run Comp Elim or Ultra Street, Outlaw 10.5 or any drag radial classes that you did the engine for? Like Tony did for this 360?

If yes, please names and records and why not Hp/inch as well.

To everyone else, I'm sorry for this just not sure why I was singled out and put down like that.
Sorry you took that personal and I apologize... It wasn't meant as an insult to your friend, just trying to make a point. Anything that's making 2.5hp/ci n/a is an impressive build from any standpoint.
But... isn't that exactly what you did? Criticize a build without really knowing anything about it?
My point was that there are always compromises that either have to be made by rules, or by choice. 2.5hp/ci is not ground breaking these days in an unlimited sense, so there must be some compromises, right? Could I build one? I think so but it's not what I do. Guys like Bob Book, Tony Bischoff, Uratchko and others who do build these engines...that's what they do. Davey's engine is no different. If he wanted an 8000rpm, 1100hp engine, we would have built him one. I did build his first one. I have built a (one) 2.35+hp/ci naturally aspirated, record setting engine so I know a little about what I'm talking about. I do have my name under a number of world records and world championships as well. I just don't find it relative.
Like I said...sorry you took that personal.

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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

If I was a betting man I would say that EZ Nova is back!!!!!!!!

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Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 5:40 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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I still don't agree with your average power rules thought FYI lol
Well that's fine but it's pure physics. Average power in the rpm range you're running, whether it's 500 rpm or 1500 rpm, is what's going to win the race. Peak power means nothing. That's just a simple fact.
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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 6:34 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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If I was a betting man I would say that EZ Nova is back!!!!!!!!


Or MOPED!
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 18, 8:35 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Well that's fine but it's pure physics. Average power in the rpm range you're running, whether it's 500 rpm or 1500 rpm, is what's going to win the race. Peak power means nothing. That's just a simple fact.
This 100%

I had an old 1990 corvette that only made 250 horsepower, and all my friends had brand new camaro v6s. They had the power to weight ratio advantage.. 10.5:1 versus my 13.1:1

I smoked all of them down the track... and ran with the v8 camaros. Why?

Because I made 250 horsepower at like 4000rpms and had an average power of the corvette was around 225 where as the camaro is 190
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 4:21 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Actually this I agree with! Maybe we were saying it in a different way? If one had like my 700hp 468. One shifts at 6500, I shift at 7500. In a 3800 lbs car I still think the 7500 rpm motor would win.
Not necessarily--
If both engines make 700hp, the one shifting at 6500 will win if cars are set up exactly the same.
Your average power will be less due to having to build up to 7500rpm to make it. While the other will only need to turn 6500 to make it---

For example you might only be making 600hp at 6500 while he is making 600hp at 5500. He will get to 5500rpm faster than you get to 6500--being that you have the same cars.

RPM does not dictate who will win. It is how much power you are making across the RPM range--the longer you make more power than the other person, the more likely you will win that race, even if they are making more power at peak.
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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 4:40 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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That would be true if you don't set them up for the combo? If engine one runs to 6500 with 3.73 gear and 5000 stall and engine 2 runs to 7500 with 4.56 gear with a 6000 stall, the outcome will be 7500 with higher numeric gear shall be waiting at the finish line for the 6500 engine to show up.

I was told once by my engine guy, "more bangs per 1/4 will be faster". As in engine firing bangs.

Yes, I don't think it would be that dramatically different though. Put 4.10s in the car with a max of 6500 with a 5000 stall and it'll be extremely close leaning towards the car that is maxing out at 6500. I think that is a poor example of a combo to compare, but if both engines were within the same powerbands(say its across 2000rpms) and they both make the same power in those RPMs they will run the same.

More bangs per 1/4 mile will be faster? By that logic, every honda at the track should whip me down through there.

Example: My friends 383--turned 7.2k 4.56s 5k stall 3600lbs race weight.
My car: 489, turns roughly 5800, 3900 lbs 3800 stall 3.73s and 3900lb race weight. He couldn't beat me. Ever. I actually beat him by a second.
Just for fun example of another friend's car. 327 making roughly 600hp--13:1 compression, ported heads, huge solid roller cam etc.
transbrake, 6000 stall, 4.56s, 2 step, all that great stuff.
He treed me every time and had more RPMs throughout the quartermile, but I always passed him as I stayed right in my powerband longer.


It comes back to making more power over a longer period of time.
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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 5:47 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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I was told once by my engine guy, "more bangs per 1/4 will be faster". As in engine firing bangs.
That has to be qualified. I see time and time again, guys at the drag strip who think they have to rev the snot out of their engines only to be seriously disappointed at the finish line. RPM alone does nothing unless it has the power to go along with it. I'm guessing you know this, but just wanted to clarify because I hear that comment all the time and I have to shake my head. Crazy Davey's first engine made peak power at 6300 rpm. It ran 9.40's at 140+ in his 3500# street legal Chevelle. I saw him embarrass "high rpm" engines one after another.
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 6:08 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

Since you threw E-85 into the equation, yes.

It will allow you to run more compression, and more timing without the drawbacks of unleaded premium.

More compression means you can run more Cam.

Of course, the power band will go up in the RPM range. For a true street engine, that means everything is turning faster. Plus the valve train has to be able to accomadate the RPM.

Since today's definition of a "street engine" is pretty broad, why not.
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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 6:13 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

900 na and streetable good luck

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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 22nd, 18, 7:12 PM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

I plan on it, not a DD, but it is a street car with AC. Someday.....Tic-Tac-Toe

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE POWER..... AND IF YOU USE THAT POWER BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 18, 8:52 AM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

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Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
If I was a betting man I would say that EZ Nova is back!!!!!!!!
Well he's gone now... I'd say you were probably right!
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 18, 9:15 AM
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Re: High power big bore short stroke bbc question

I like big bore and big stroke ,because my car is kinda heavy

Traction has not been fun. a smaller crank should rev faster and be more manageable of the line.

as far as e85 its anywhere from e40 to e 90 so be careful with the tune.

the correct way to do it is to buy a drum of e98 buy pump e85 and measure it and add e98 to get the correct level

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