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post #91 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 5:53 AM
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Geoff
 
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

The BBC has two inherent problems that will aggravate hyd lifter tick, that the SBC does not have....

1. Big valves
2. High[er] ratio rockers.

1. Big valves require stronger springs. Stronger springs will bleed lifters down faster.

2. High ratio rockers increase the spring force transmitted to the lifter. 100 lb spring, 1.5 rocker, lifter sees 150 lb. With BBC 1.7 rocker, lifter sees 170 lbs.

And then use thin oil...

As I said in an earlier post on this thread, go to solid lifters if you don't want to hear lifters ticking ever.
You can use sol lifters on a hyd cam as long as you lash them tight.
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post #92 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 9:42 AM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

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Originally Posted by 496blaze View Post
Alan, are the 396 lifters the street series or the sportsman race lifters?



I'm not 100% sure honestly. I assume street series. I bought the whole roller kit from Straub.


We haven't put many miles on this engine in the last 2 years, only maybe 700-800 miles. The car went to paint right after the engine went in it. I hope to drive it a lot more this summer, dial everything in better and see how the lifters do with some miles on them. This one has Crane Gold rockers on it vs. Isky rockers on the 496, there is definitely a difference in valve train sound between the two engines. We even had custom push rods made for the 396 to get the rocker sweep on the valve stem exactly right.


I know the 396 spins to 6800 rpms with no problem....

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post #93 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 1:08 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Maybe you guys can mention what spring pressures your running and what kind of noises (or lack of) your getting.

My morels have about 170 seat and 400 open, 1.5 turns of preload, and there nosiy.

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post #94 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 1:19 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Mine are in a SB springs are 165 seat & 420ish open. 1.65 in. rocker & 1.5 ex. rocker.

Jim

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post #95 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 1:43 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Would the noise be lash? What else could it be?
Lifters bleed down then have to pump back up.

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post #96 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 3:09 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
Maybe you guys can mention what spring pressures your running and what kind of noises (or lack of) your getting.

My morels have about 170 seat and 400 open, 1.5 turns of preload, and there nosiy.
The 4603's I had on my 468 with 2.25"/1.89" valves in Edelbrock Marine oval port heads, a 245*/248*, .646"/.603" Straub roller, Trend 3/8" pushrods from Straub and two different sets of rocker arms - I started out with some Crane aluminum rockers, valvetrain was noisy. In my ignorance, I thought maybe the aluminum rockers were the culprit, so I switched to a set of Crower Enduro stainless rockers. Still noisy, and my wallet was $600 lighter! Springs were 68363 Crowers, https://www.crower.com/valve-train-c...-w-damper.html If i remember correctly they were installed at 1.95" (194#) I checked with Chris before buying the springs, he said they would work - I already had the matching set of retainers, locks, etc for the heads. This was back in 2011/2012. Knowing what I know now, the springs were probably a little much and may have contributed to the noise, but I was also unaware of all the complaints about the Morels being noisy. I had them set anywhere from 1/2 turn - 1 turn without much change in the noise. I will say that the motor would rev to 6500+ very quickly and saw 7k on a few occasions.

The Straub Tech ZZ532 I'm running now is running .904" Morel solids. Other than the thump coming from the exhaust, the engine is surprisingly quiet, and much quieter than the 4603's ever where.

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post #97 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 4:45 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

I would think cam lobe aggressiveness has something to do with. Slow valve closing velocities should be quieter.

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post #98 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 4:55 PM
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FWIW I have Morel hyd roller lifters in my 475 BB. Dead quiet at 1 turn with 260 @ .050 680 lift cam but they are .904 dia pn 5470’s
springs are about 250 lb + on seat I think

I also have a set of “ street Morels “ in my 396 they do have some noise that seems to get better after warm up but that engine has only dyno time so no real miles

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post #99 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 7:27 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN SS View Post
FWIW I have Morel hyd roller lifters in my 475 BB. Dead quiet at 1 turn with 260 @ .050 680 lift cam but they are .904 dia pn 5470ís
springs are about 250 lb + on seat I think

I also have a set of ď street Morels ď in my 396 they do have some noise that seems to get better after warm up but that engine has only dyno time so no real miles

This thread shows how inconsistent Morel lifters are some are noisy no matter what you do and some are quiet................

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post #100 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 7:54 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

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Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS N/E View Post
This thread shows how inconsistent Morel lifters are some are noisy no matter what you do and some are quiet................
Maybe but the entry level "street lifter" is in an original 396 block never had the bore clearance checked ........ the 5470 are in new holes for the .904 dia so clearances are right on the morel street lifter with encapsulated wheel is not meant for a big cam and spring pressure Im pbly on the edge on that one

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post #101 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 18, 9:40 PM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Mine are noisy - more at cold start and less the more I run it. The under discussed factor may well be the cam designs themselves. There seems to be a common issue with aggressive grinds, as mine is a Lunati Voodoo, the ramps are aggressive on both sides of the ramp. They seem noisier at lower rpms than higher. Has anyone done a close scrutiny of the design relationships between the cam and lifters?

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post #102 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 18, 2:15 AM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

I have a set in my 396 , at first start when cold they're quiet but by the time i've backed out of the shed they're clacking , then they will quiet down when the water temp gets up to about 150 on the gauge, Larry
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post #103 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 18, 2:29 AM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

With all these complaints on the noise of the Morels, why do people still recommend them or decide to use them? How are they better, and why are they worth putting up with?

Seems to me, after seeing all these posts on them being noisy and many switching them out, why are they still a good choice?

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post #104 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 18, 10:54 AM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
With all these complaints on the noise of the Morels, why do people still recommend them or decide to use them? How are they better, and why are they worth putting up with?

Seems to me, after seeing all these posts on them being noisy and many switching them out, why are they still a good choice?
I bought mine prior to the noise complaints becoming an issue. Like others here, they are noisy on start-up and revert to a sewing machine sound once warmed up. I won't buy another pair, but I'm not going through the expense to switch them out.

I've had my motor torn down twice with these lifters, and they were in excellent shape, so I'll tolerate the noise.

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post #105 of 135 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 18, 11:24 AM
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Re: Morel Lifter Tick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
With all these complaints on the noise of the Morels, why do people still recommend them or decide to use them? How are they better, and why are they worth putting up with?

Seems to me, after seeing all these posts on them being noisy and many switching them out, why are they still a good choice?
Fair question. I think many sets of the older 4603 Morels were bought so quickly that there was some period of time that went by before the noise phenomenon became a talking point. You have guys that race and then others with street cars. I'm guessing it's more of an issue for the street driven cars where guys are used to having a quite hydraulic valve train.

That being said the reason I use them is because I spin my BBC up to 7,400 rpm with intake valve seat pressure set at 198 lbs. and nose at 525 lbs. Exhaust valves are less. Valve lift is .710/.676 with duration at .253/.262. The cam is an asymmetrical grind so one of it's attributes is that it sits the valves down a little slower. When I purchased the lifters (.842 body) very few hydraulic lifters could handle the spring pressure and rpm I'm running. I have to drive it to the track so I prefer a hydraulic roller. I've recently spent a little time discussing alternate hydraulic rollers with a few engine builders and they all say the same thing - don't waste your money. Could I put a newer quieter set in - sure but it doesn't bother me and I know exactly what this engine is supposed to sound like so if something changes I know when to pay attention to it. Once the engine temp gets to 150f they are about as quite as they are going to get.
It does seem like these endless threads on the Morels keep coming though!
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