Primer/Paint Recommendations - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 9:45 PM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Primer/Paint Recommendations

Hi,

I've been spending a lot of time trying to get research done on primer and paint, so I need to know if I'm off on the right foot here when I begin doing the body work of my Chevelle. I'm trying to understand what are the better products to use and how to use them. I was only have 2 paint suppliers near me and one was sherwin, which I found out may not be the best products to use, but I decided to get one of their cheaper 2K primer surfacers so I can get some practice. The other place was a PPG dealer, and I picked up some DP50LF epoxy primer with the DP402LF catalyst. I already got one of my fender extensions sandblasted and painted with the DPLF. It seems to have painted on real nicely, but after a week I already managed to get some of it scratched off after fitting it back on the fender. I've read from old posts that the DP402LF tends to have problems and that the DP401LF is better to use. I didn't expect it to rub off that easily - did I just not wait long enough before handling it, or is it really just the catalyst?

Anyway, I've also had been really scratching my head on the order of operations when it comes to body work and epoxy. I've done body work on my truck over a decade ago when I still had it, and as far as I knew, bondo was designed to go onto bare metal. However after doing my research lately, it seems that doing filler over epoxy is the way to do it? Here is what I was able to come up with, so I'd definitely like to hear some input:
  1. DA 80 grit
  2. Clean (Wax and grease remover)
  3. DP50LF with DP401LF or DP402LF
  4. Filler
  5. Sand
  6. Clean
  7. 4 - 6 until level
  8. PPG K36 as surfacer (and finish1 2K surfacer from sherwin since I already have it)
  9. Sand
  10. Clean
  11. 8 - 10 until level, or go back to 4 if needed
  12. PPG K36 as sealer (with tint perhaps? Plan on doing dark blue basecoat.....eventually)

The products I used above is just from what I got from research so far, so I really don't know what is better or whatever. I tend to hear a lot about SPi so how does that compare to the PPG products? I certainly would like to pay a bit less than what PPG sells for lol. Anyway, so the questions in general are:
  • Is DP401LF better to use than DP402LF? (Besides the induction time/pot life) Also I've seen this on a post, but not from the guy behind the counter, but the shelf-life after opening is really only 2 weeks?
  • Should filler go on before or after epoxy?
  • If the filler goes on after epoxy, how does block sanding work with the epoxy? From my understanding is that epoxy cannot be sanded and gums up the paper. I'd imagine it would be difficult to feather out the filler
  • Keep ecoat on? Just needs scuff if so? According to the tech sheet, DP401LP is required and says unsanded ecoat. I've got ecoat that it over 15 years old, so I'm not sure how to feel about the unsanded ecoat underneath. Does it hurt to scuff it?
  • Does brand matter for surfacer? I'd like to just use the sherwin quart I have just so I can at least make it worth the money. I figure most of it would just block off anyway.
  • Is it better to invest in other brands? What kind of experiences have you all had with products that you used?

That's pretty much the concern at the moment, and I certainly appreciate any input! I've got a lot of work ahead of me and would only like to do it once, lol.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 10:38 PM
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jerry
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

I'll give you a little breakdown on which products I use and why.

SPI epoxy....Great product, cheaper than the crap DPLF
SPI Turbo urethane high build primer....less than half the cost of K36 and IMO, every bit the product, which is great.
Upol Gold filler....great product and half the cost of Evercoat Rage
SPI as a sealer or PPG D8XX (color preference to fill the XX)...I like the PPG a little better.
Topcoats range depending on what you're doing.

I also buy SPI Reducer and Wax/Grease remover to save money, both great products.

I don't feel I'm leaving anything on the table with any of these products.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old May 12th, 19, 8:38 PM
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Stan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Starting to question the purpose of epoxy primer. Evercoat or Rage filler-direct to metal. Newest polyester spray on filler-direct to metal. 2K urethane high build primer-direct to metal. 2K primer/sealer-direct to metal. Where and why do you sandwich in the epoxy?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old May 12th, 19, 9:20 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanski View Post
Starting to question the purpose of epoxy primer. Evercoat or Rage filler-direct to metal. Newest polyester spray on filler-direct to metal. 2K urethane high build primer-direct to metal. 2K primer/sealer-direct to metal. Where and why do you sandwich in the epoxy?

Because NONE of those products are meant for bare metal application. They have NO corrosion resistance protection. They are meant to be applied on bare metal spots or breakthroughs not entire panels of nothing but bare metal.


Also, the vast majority of paint products IMO are geared towards collision repair. The name of the game is reducing the number of products a shop needs to buy and more importantly its all about speed.


Fun fact, some OEMs REQUIRE the use of epoxy on bare metal prior to applying body filler.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old May 12th, 19, 9:29 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

I think PPG's DPLF epoxy sucks regardless of hardner used. SPI, spies, RM make a superior epoxy.
I also think K38 is a superior primer to K36. No need for sealer IMO.

Ecoat on what? Reproduction parts? People b!tch all the time about the fitment of said parts but then have no problems with the paint they applied? Strip the ecoat and know for sure what is under that paint, Ive seen some rust spots on aftermarket parts with my own eyes.
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1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 7:45 AM
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Scott
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

I use PPG CRE epoxy for corrosion protection and as a blocking primer. It is in the commercial line. Nearly the same animal as PPG VP 2050. PPG calls VP a DTM but it is a true epoxy. Both are very high build and have zero shrinkage. CRE is inexpensive. I've spoken to PPG directly about both products. I also like R-M epoxy. U-tech is good as well. Epoxy inhibits corrosion, other products do not prevent corrosion as well. E-coat gets stripped on restorations. I've seen rust under it and so have many other shops.

Last edited by Raven1; May 13th, 19 at 8:05 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 10:03 AM
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Stan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle View Post
Because NONE of those products are meant for bare metal application. They have NO corrosion resistance protection. They are meant to be applied on bare metal spots or breakthroughs not entire panels of nothing but bare metal.


Also, the vast majority of paint products IMO are geared towards collision repair. The name of the game is reducing the number of products a shop needs to buy and more importantly its all about speed.


Fun fact, some OEMs REQUIRE the use of epoxy on bare metal prior to applying body filler.
Maybe I'm too casual in my approach to prepping for paint, but when the pros at the supply shop tell me to use this, that, and this other stuff and they are all compatible and designed for and recommended for direct to metal use, I have to believe them since they supply all the professional body shops and if they are having problems the supplier would definitely know. Maybe there is the possibility that down the road there could be substrate issues, but I doubt I'll live long enough to be proven wrong.
Looking back at my projects over the years, I painted my 46 pickup 45 years ago using products that today can best be described as primitive, still looks great. Painted my 58 Belair 30 years ago with primitive prep supplies, still winning trophies. Same thing on my Chevelles and 5 or so other cars in the fleet, not one of them has a paint job newer that 10 years old and they all look just fine. Now that I'm doing a few new cars I'm trying to be as up to date on the new products and procedures as I possibly can, while reminding myself that stuff I did uninformed and in the dark 45 years ago hasn't failed yet.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 10:51 AM
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

I question the CRE epoxy and high build primer since it's geared towards the commercial line and not auto restoration. Can't say from experience but I've read other's testimonials claiming it's chip prone which is a biggy for me.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 1:18 PM
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Scott
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheveslakr View Post
I question the CRE epoxy and high build primer since it's geared towards the commercial line and not auto restoration. Can't say from experience but I've read other's testimonials claiming it's chip prone which is a biggy for me.
Call the PPG tech center and ask about CRE and VP2050. VP is virtually identical to CRE. VP is in their Vibrance Auto Restoration line. I chase CRE or VP with regular 2K urethane primer. CRE and VP sand well after you cut through the "skin". Regular 2Ks contain more talc which is why they sand easier.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old May 15th, 19, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle View Post
I think PPG's DPLF epoxy sucks regardless of hardner used. SPI, spies, RM make a superior epoxy.
I also think K38 is a superior primer to K36. No need for sealer IMO.
Yea, I've been reviewing some of the SPi products, and it certainly seems like it's worth a shot. I'll use that more for the exterior. I guess it's ok to use the DPLF for engine bay and miscellaneous interior areas? I figure I should use the quart I got. Thanks!
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old May 15th, 19, 11:51 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Ill say this. I have various chevelle parts that were sandblasted 15 years ago, core support, tranny member, various brackets coated with to 2-3 coats of DPLF with no idea what hardner was used. Those parts have been hanging in a climate controlled garage since. They have rust on them.

The old DP epoxy was great the new DPLF is junk, it has biten me several times. Am a big fan of SPI epoxy, I first started spraying it around 2007-2008. R-M BASF Diamont Glasurit whatever people like to call it also makes a top shelf epoxy.
Glasurit

This is what I do. Sand bare metal with 80 grit. Clean metal. Spray 2 coats of epoxy allow to sit overnight, come back with red scuff pad or real light 180 and scuff epoxy. Apply filler, sand filler. Once level and flat, spray 1 or 2 coats of epoxy over the entire panel. Then come back with a high build primer, say K38 of SPI turbo prime or their High build.
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1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old May 17th, 19, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle View Post
Ill say this. I have various chevelle parts that were sandblasted 15 years ago, core support, tranny member, various brackets coated with to 2-3 coats of DPLF with no idea what hardner was used. Those parts have been hanging in a climate controlled garage since. They have rust on them.
lol wtf. I guess the fender extension I did is going back to the blast cabinet one of these days. Oh well...at least that was the only thing I experimented with.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 19, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

So it turns out there was a SPi distributor pretty close and I was able to pick up some of the epoxy primer. I went ahead and used it on some miscellaneous parts, such as the radiator cover since it was all beat up and rusting. I have to say, I really like the sheen of this primer! I did however seem to have a bit of issue trying to get the darn stuff to lay flat as I had orange peel going on, which I guess it wasn't the end of the world since this stuff really sands nicely. Is this a normal experience for anyone else? Any tips on spraying technique? After some block sanding with 2k primer and applying SEM black trim paint, it turned out better than I could hope for my first application, lol
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 19, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
Dan
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

I think I'm getting a hang of the paint gun settings for this primer. I prepped up and painted my patched quarter panel so I can it based for body work. Really nice to see some reflection for the first time on this car...kinda gets me motivated haha
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 19, 5:20 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Primer/Paint Recommendations

Is that SEM trim black in a spray can? Why not get a flattened single stage urethane.
SPI offers SS black in various sheens if I recall.

I just got some Dupont Imron for my hammer restorations, they have 4-5 different levels of black on that old Imron.

Currently working on How to videos and replacement sheetmetal panels

1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
Pictures of my work

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