Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 19th, 19, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Drew
 
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Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I've got a '67 GS fender that needs some pretty good help getting back to a good look. First things first, I have not done body work so this is my first go at it.
I've read through Eric's hammer off dolly repair and used it with some success (IMO) last night. I didn't strip or guide coat, the existing paint provided me enough of a view. I've done some research on using the tools but not so sure on things when it comes to a larger area with several creases in the metal. I don't want to cut out and weld, this thing really has no rust to speak of, just ugliness. I know I'll need some filler, I just want to minimize it.
A few pics of one area before/after (my first go at body repair) as well as the larger area I could use some tips/advice on.
Thanks.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 19th, 19, 5:02 PM
Cam
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Cameron Milne
 
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I am bumping this.

I don't have much experience (any) but the work on that fender is compounded by the numerous distortions. I see some light hammer work, spooning, some pick work and some spot-heating followed immediately with hammer work to shrink any stretched metal as required. What you don't want to do is make it worse by overworking the metal. Work from the outside of any dent, which is higher on the outside, then gradually work towards the center. The dent should pop back as you begin to work inwards and relieve the stress in the metal.

O.K., now that I have pretended to seem to know what I'm talking about, it is worth checking into any posts made in the bodyshop forum here made by user "MARTINSR".

Here is a link to just one of the relevant articles, this one covering Dolly On, Dolly Off hammering: https://www.chevelles.com/forums/12-...sr-please.html
I don't have the time right now to search out a more specific link, but there is a starter.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 19, 8:10 AM Thread Starter
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Drew
 
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

Thanks for that Cameron, I'll start searching for some of Brian's threads. Having a starting point with a little direction helps.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 6:23 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I would buy this. That fender is full of stretched metal, it WILL NEED TO BE SHRUNK! IMO a shrinking disc is the easiest, most controllable method, cheapest, and fastest method of shrinking metal.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shrinking-D...0AAOxyDgRRApOM


Look at these following photos, your fender IS the following photos.

Scan_Pic0005 by eric2406, on Flickr

Scan_Pic0004 by eric2406, on Flickr

IMG_1220 by eric2406, on Flickr

IMG_1221 by eric2406, on Flickr

Your fender is a combination of a high crown and low crown panel, the two crowns will react differently to collision forces. If you look at the first picture, it shows a cross section of a combination panel. Line A-A is the high, line B-B is the low. Notice how line A and B react to the same force. Line A the metal moves up and out, line B the metal gets sucked inward.

You typically can't repair these in the same manner. Look at the second picture, if you try to push up on the displaced metal on a low crown panel, it doesn't spring back into place once it has reached a certain point because the panel has been drawn short.


Now for the pop can, once again a combination panel. Hard to see but on the first picture the ends of the can are starting to angle inward, showing the damage is causing the panel to become shorter. Pretty obvious in the second picture. If you tried to repair the can in the second photo by just pulling up on the low spot, it will come up but the ends will remain angled, the panel will remain short.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 8:35 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

This is what I would do. Bolt the fender back on the car, gap the door gap the fender both sides along with the entire front end. How does it fit, how does it look are the gaps even and flow the same side to side.

If that fender is drawn short you should see it. Judging by the two hits on the body line and how flat the panel is, its probably short.

Instead of pushing the damage out, you need to pull the shortened ends out, releasing the tension while lowering the highs.

Much thanks to photobucket, I had some repair pics I did using tension pulls but are now lost. I did take some pics from some old books showing the method.


Scan_Pic0027 by eric2406, on Flickr


Scan_Pic0028 by eric2406,

on Flickr


IMG_3969 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3970 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3971 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3972 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3973 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3974 by eric2406, on Flickr


IMG_3976 by eric2406, on Flickr
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 19, 8:59 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I would leave the fender bolted on during the repair, that cheap arse fender stand you got aint doing you any favors. I would also make some templates off the other side and compare to the damaged one.

I would also start by getting the wheel well straightened out first.

Currently working on How to videos and replacement sheetmetal panels

1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

Damn.
Thanks for all of that info Eric. Not sure I can get all of this done myself but regardless of that issue, I've got a few questions.
I need to shrink and stretch different areas? You're talking about a shrinking disc and then also a torsion pull to stretch the metal, so that's why it sounds like both to me.
When using a shrinking disc, how is that done, operate on the outside or inside of the fender, and in my case, where? (if able to get to the required area).

I don't know that I'll be able to do a tension pull on the fender, just don't have that equipment but I understand the concept and what is being done. Is there some other method I could use - with minimal metal working equipment that I have? I have some hammers and dollies and a cheap arse fender stand, along with the requisite power tools (grinder/sander, etc). I hadn't considered bolting the fender on for an easier working condition but I like that idea. Same for the template, it crossed my mind but haven't done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle View Post
I would also start by getting the wheel well straightened out first.
Any direction on where to start? The line is dinged hard and the lip is bent in pretty good. Hammer from the inside could flatten the arc of the lip so I'm not sure how to get it out without causing more problems. I think I can get the line bumped back out but from there, I keep staring and thinking....
Thanks again Eric.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 6:15 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

When one shrinks metal, the metal actually gets thicker decreasing its surface area. Stretched metal is the opposite the surface area increases. Metal shrinks via heat, metal stretches via hammer and dolly.

A tension pull is NOT stretching metal unless you completely overwork it til at which the point it shears in half. Think of a tension pull as holding a 2 ft string, one end in each hand now spread your arms apart. The slack is removed and now the string is 2 ft long again.

A lot of guys don't understand the importance of a tension pull. Take your string again and place it on a table. With your finger push the middle of the string say 1/4". That string no longer measures 2ft across, now push that one section back into place. You can get it fairly level and straight but it won't measure 2ft.

Am not saying your panel needs a tension pull.

Ive used pipe solder, body filler and hot glue as bonding agent for tension pulls and some scrap metal. Ive used a body jack or porta power as shown in photos along with a friction jack AKA monkey on a stick
If you could counter balance the weight you could use an old screw jack found in any late model car.

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1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 6:35 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

The shrinking disc is done on the outside.
A couple of real sh!tty you tube videos I did years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/user/sevtche..._as=subscriber

As for the body lines, get a metal chisel and grind a profile that fits the shape. You can even use a hard plastic like delrin.

You can even use body filler and make yourself a buck off a know good section of wheel well and use that to hammer into.

Currently working on How to videos and replacement sheetmetal panels

1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 7:23 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I probably shouldn't, but I will horn in anyway.

Great advice from Eric as usual.

Having said that, Drew - this fender looks to be quite the challenge as an initial shot at bodywork - way more than I would attempt.

Are better fenders hard to find for this particular car; or is it of sentimental value, or?

Just curious - carry on and good luck.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 8:47 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

I've been in the restoration business for decades, and work on these cars every day. Yes, you could save that fender, but I would not waste a customer's money doing so. Finding an assembly line part, even if it had lower rot, is less labor intensive than dealing with a trashed POS. The OP could save it if he has guidance.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 19, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Drew
 
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

So tension pull is referring to pretty much pulling it straight? Maybe that's what I was trying to get across instead of stretching.
I'll get to your ****ty videos and get back with any questions, thanks Eric.



Quote:
Originally Posted by davewho1 View Post
Having said that, Drew - this fender looks to be quite the challenge as an initial shot at bodywork - Are better fenders hard to find for this particular car?
Just curious - carry on and good luck.

Pretty much, not easy to find, at least within driving distance. I have not found any repro fenders, don't think they are made for a '67 GS, same for the fender brace, which is what I really need due to the rust out in that area. I don't think I can shape and fab that part, so I found a set of fenders, both need work, but neither have the rust issues. Grasshopper did not choose wisely, he had a '66 in better shape (I think).
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 19, 5:50 AM
 
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

...still trying to get my head around those sketches.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 19, 8:29 AM Thread Starter
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Drew
 
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

This is going to be a slow process for me so if I don't get back into this thread over a few days, do not consider that disregarding any help. Working on this fender is going to take patience and sometimes I have a problem putting that into projects.
My first step is hanging the fender - which I have not done before. I've pulled them off, just haven't installed. Right now it's sitting in place but not bolted anywhere.
Once mounted and gapped to my liking, check for the need of a tension adjust tool. I'm thinking it'll need pushed back to length, but I don't know that.
Grind a chisel to shape and work on the wheel well lip.
Get a template made from the drivers' side.
Order a shrinking disc.
Implement patience....


Thanks guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PostHaste View Post
...still trying to get my head around those sketches.
The high crown/low crown has got me a bit confused. Upper fender/lower fender?
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 19, 4:09 PM
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Re: Fender Dent Repair....A little guidance

Scan_Pic0006-1 by eric2406, on Flickr

Cross section of a panel.
Line AA is high crown
Line BB is crown
Point C is point of impact.
Scan_Pic0005 by eric2406, on Flickr


High crown Line AA

IMG_1215 by eric2406, on Flickr

Low crown line BB

IMG_1213 by eric2406, on Flickr


collision forces on low crown line BB
IMG_1220 by eric2406, on Flickr

collision forces on high crown line AA
IMG_1226 by eric2406, on Flickr


Nothing to do with upper or lower its all about the radius, flat and curved.


truck fender by eric2406, on Flickr

Currently working on How to videos and replacement sheetmetal panels

1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
Pictures of my work
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