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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:00 PM
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

My guess is if you reduced it, it could react and if it didnít when you sprayed it it could react. Paint is a weird thing you could spray it and nothing happen. My personal opinion I wouldnít chance it the odds are something bad is going to happen. Itís kind of like mixing old with new.

I have seen a guy used to Dbu with dt reducer and it went south very fast. He put it on cleared it everything looked fine. I went to put the molding on it and it was still soft under the clear when I pulled the molding off and ripped the paint off with it. Not a fun redo


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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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Originally Posted by Joe Warren View Post
My guess is if you reduced it, it could react and if it didnít when you sprayed it it could react. Paint is a weird thing you could spray it and nothing happen. My personal opinion I wouldnít chance it the odds are something bad is going to happen. Itís kind of like mixing old with new.

I have seen a guy used to Dbu with dt reducer and it went south very fast. He put it on cleared it everything looked fine. I went to put the molding on it and it was still soft under the clear when I pulled the molding off and ripped the paint off with it. Not a fun redo


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Damn, sounds too risky, no wonder why my painter won't do it.

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:05 PM
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

As a painter myself I wouldnít do it either


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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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As a painter myself I wouldnít do it either


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So as a painter, do you think the color I have on my car can be matched with current non-lead DBC? I'm being told by my painter there is no way to match the paint already on my car, yellow is too hard to match to start with, and the toners these days do not contain lead yadda yadda, so impossible.

I think he is so spooked about the color not matching, he is refusing any other option but a full re-block and re-paint with Standox. $$$$$

My only other option, is I have found a guy 300 miles from me with an old stock of DBU balancer and toners, who could mix up the same code I had mixed in 2003. Would that still be a crap shoot in terms of color match?

Maybe I can buy toners and base from this guy and have someone local try to mix & match with what I have, and least it would all be DBU, same toners etc...

I know I am grasping for straws, but the "bad" toner in this mix is only making up 2.6% of the total volume. I'm tempted to paint and clear some random car part to see how it performs.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:22 PM
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

Well yellow is a tricky color and dbu is different then dbc but it can be done

First question is what are you doing? I need some more info before I can answer that question properly.

But I would think if you were painting a door you should be able to blend fender and quarter and be ok.



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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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Originally Posted by Joe Warren View Post
Well yellow is a tricky color and dbu is different then dbc but it can be done

First question is what are you doing? I need some more info before I can answer that question properly.

But I would think if you were painting a door you should be able to blend fender and quarter and be ok.



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There are various issues with the current paint job, I have a thread about all the issues: https://www.chevelles.com/forums/12-...ld-you-do.html

If you don't have time to read thru all of that, the short version:

1) Need a set of new (used doors but never had rust) blocked out and painted, blended with qtr's.

2) Vertical side of both front fenders are not flat, need to be blocked out and blended with top of the fenders.

3) 66 SS hood inserts, have a good used set that are not all warped like my old ones, hoping the color match is good enough to panel paint these.

4) Passenger side top of qtr has a patch that is bubbling as back side of weld was never dressed, was left bare welded steel. Would need to dig out all the paint & filler on top of that patch and blend, dress the back side of the weld.

5) Roof skin right above rain gutters is wavy (from stress relieved spot welds I did with a MIG when replacing the roof skin, we are guessing, was flat after the paint job 15 years ago) would need to be blocked and blended.


Painter told me a lot of that stuff could be fixed without a huge number of hours, but he is reluctant because the paint will not match, and he won't be able to blend, and of course will not be able to panel paint anything. He won't take my money for that job due to risk of a paint match issue.

He wants $20k for a full re-block and repaint of the entire outside of the car (less the jams, leave the current DBU there), $4000 for Standox materials, and $16k for the ~300 hours for the blocking prep & paint. I'm told if the fixes could be done with paint that matched perfectly, I could fix the car for around $8000. So for me, it's $8000 vs. $20,000 if I had a gallon of DBU per the mix code. Which I "kind of" have... Sounds like the risk is too great to use that paint.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 1:39 PM
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

Well first thing I got out of that was I donít charge people enough! Lol

Worst problem is thereís lots a little things youíre doing that arenít close together. Your painter is right yellow is very difficult but even if you got DBU doesnít guarantee a match regardless. My suggestion would be to still get Dbu paint even if he has to repaint everything by blending it still a better shot of matching then using anything else. There is so many different variables that go into paining trying to explain them is very hard, painter, paint gun,temp, etc.

Sorry Idk if Iíve helped or not. You can always email me your number and I can talk it over more if youíd like


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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 18, 1:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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Originally Posted by Joe Warren View Post
Well first thing I got out of that was I donít charge people enough! Lol

Worst problem is thereís lots a little things youíre doing that arenít close together. Your painter is right yellow is very difficult but even if you got DBU doesnít guarantee a match regardless. My suggestion would be to still get Dbu paint even if he has to repaint everything by blending it still a better shot of matching then using anything else. There is so many different variables that go into paining trying to explain them is very hard, painter, paint gun,temp, etc.

Sorry Idk if Iíve helped or not. You can always email me your number and I can talk it over more if youíd like


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I definitely understand the paint match issue. Also, this yellow paint is virtually all chrome yellow, hardly any white. It took 1.5 gallons to paint the car the first time as it required so many coats. I just don't think I can spend another $20k on this paint job when I paid $11k for it last time around, and I was never able to put the car together because the paint was never right to begin with.

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 18, 6:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

I have the can of "bad" paint back from the painter. I bought some spray out cards off eBay, going to spray a card just to see how well this paint matches what is on the car. I'm in the process of trying to find local shops that might still have a stock of DBU base & toners, and maybe find someone who can mix it for me, while trying to match what I have.

One question I have about my mix code:

DMD663 31.6
DMD648 84.9
DMD639 186.1
DMD643 348.9
DBX695 583.9

That code is for 1 pint. What are the numbers after the PPG part numbers, a unit of mass/weight? I know I have seen ppl mixing paint on all those car shows, with the can of paint on a scale, what units are they measuring?

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 18, 10:17 AM
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PPG DBU/DBC questions

They are mixed in Parts. Like parts per gal/qt/pt


Whatís the ppg code for the color?


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Last edited by Joe Warren; Sep 7th, 18 at 10:37 AM.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 18, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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Whatís the ppg code for the color?


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Well, that's a bit complicated.

The mix I ultimately used was a scan from a PPG scanner on the underside of a trunk lid of a fellow TC member's 1970 Buick GSX. The original name of the color is Saturn Yellow, a 1970 only Buick color.

There is a PPG code for the color, but when I initially had that mixed up, it did not at all look like the color that I had mixed to the scan. The code is 81838.

Here is a thread from 17 years ago of my trying to find the color: https://www.chevelles.com/forums/12-...e-81838-a.html

Yes, this is how long this project has been dragging on

I was told the scanners are not perfect, so essentially the color on my car right now is a custom color. I doubt it would perfectly match the yellow that came off the showroom floor back in 1970, it will be as close as that PPG scanner could get to the paint on the underside of that trunk lid...

EDIT: I found a guy in Minnesota who has all the toners and the base he's willing to sell me: https://www.welleauto.com/index.php

So if I buy all the toners and base required to mix per my code, is the DRR reducer still available? I contacted PPG and they told me the DRR has a 14 day shelf life if opened, and 18 months if un-opened. I think I'd only buy this DBU if I can buy new DRR, not some that has been on a shelf for many years. I found these guys who make a "PPG blend" reactive reducer: CMA Refinishing Solutions - Automotive Solvents / Reducers Would a non-PPG reactive reducer be an option?

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 18, 9:45 PM
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

OP, you are trying to buy outdated toners for a system not supported by PPG. Toners have a shelf life, who knows how old some you buy off the internet are. If they've been tapped they could be destroyed from improper use.
DBU is old, PPG kept it because it was still selling up to a few years ago. Painters are hard to change.
I quit using it in the 90's, went to DBC then on to EHP water 8 yrs ago.
Find a painter using a newer PPG line and with some confidence. You won't regret moving past DBU.
I have been having excellent matches with PPG EHP water.
I never tell a customer I can't match a car (unless the paint condition is all garbage) I may need some more time for sprayouts and tinting.
EHP eliminates a lot of the variables that affect DBC color match.

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 18, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PPG DBU/DBC questions

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Originally Posted by TechNova View Post
OP, you are trying to buy outdated toners for a system not supported by PPG. Toners have a shelf life, who knows how old some you buy off the internet are. If they've been tapped they could be destroyed from improper use.
DBU is old, PPG kept it because it was still selling up to a few years ago. Painters are hard to change.
I quit using it in the 90's, went to DBC then on to EHP water 8 yrs ago.
Find a painter using a newer PPG line and with some confidence. You won't regret moving past DBU.
I have been having excellent matches with PPG EHP water.
I never tell a customer I can't match a car (unless the paint condition is all garbage) I may need some more time for sprayouts and tinting.
EHP eliminates a lot of the variables that affect DBC color match.
I would have no problem doing what you advise, but so far everyone local I have talked to (painters, paint suppliers, etc) says no way, no way I'm going to get a good enough match if I try to go with a different paint system with different non-lead yellow toners, hence the reason I'm being advised to seek out the original DBU toners used. If you were local to me I'd sure as heck pay you to try to match the color in whatever system you recommend. As others have mentioned, there are so many variables for matching/panel painting/blending that I'm sure you're well aware of beyond just color matching to a sprayout card.

The PPG supplier I talked to today even told me he'd have no issued using that mixed bag DBU/DBC gallon of paint I have, while others say run, don't walk away from it. Literally, no two pieces of advise have even been close to one another.

I think I've lost my painter, I can tell in his voice/comments he wants me to just go find someone else, he wants no part of the project other than repainting the whole car with his paint of choice (Standox). Maybe for the best, I already paid him $11,000 for a paint job that kinda sucked from day one, now he wants $20k more.

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