Old photos of Los Angeles - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 11:46 AM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

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Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post

Yet we are telling kids today that the air and water are dirty.

We need to educate our kids; see the attached graph that is published by our EPA.

It's very impressive
Tell the whole story:

From the same article that your "All is good" graph comes from (actually, immediately following the graph):

"Despite great progress in air quality improvement, approximately 137 million people nationwide lived in counties with pollution levels above the primary NAAQS in 2018."

https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-q...tional-summary

That's more than a third of the population.

So, yes, it is OK to tell your children that the air and water is still dirty.

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 12:31 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Ca's answer is to passdumb smog regulations
The problem is there are too many people here

Elimintate millions of illegals, 2 stroke leaf blowers...problem solved.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 2:19 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

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Originally Posted by Gene McGill View Post
Tell the whole story:

From the same article that your "All is good" graph comes from (actually, immediately following the graph):

"Despite great progress in air quality improvement, approximately 137 million people nationwide lived in counties with pollution levels above the primary NAAQS in 2018."

https://www.epa.gov/air-trends/air-q...tional-summary

That's more than a third of the population.

So, yes, it is OK to tell your children that the air and water is still dirty.
The real issue to me is that we don't have data about natural "pollution" from before the advent of coal which would be the proper comparison. In California's Central Valley the air is bad many times a year but a goodly amount of that "pollution" is from decaying plant life.

What is "clean air"? Even before automobiles were the dominant contributors we used coal to heat our homes. The walls of all buildings on the outside were coated in a black film. If you leaned against a wall your clothes would get the "black" on them. This is the air that everyone in American who loved in an urban area breathed.

We have not seen the likes of the smog in London in 1952:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London
even in LA or China.

I would say therefore that the air is much cleaner than it has been in quite a few centuries in most parts of the world!

Before saying that air is currently "dirty" to children I believe they should be aware of the history so they would not make an improper judgment as to the severity of that claim.

Water is yet another matter.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 3:46 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

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Originally Posted by bikeron View Post
The real issue to me is that we don't have data about natural "pollution" from before the advent of coal which would be the proper comparison. In California's Central Valley the air is bad many times a year but a goodly amount of that "pollution" is from decaying plant life.

What is "clean air"? Even before automobiles were the dominant contributors we used coal to heat our homes. The walls of all buildings on the outside were coated in a black film. If you leaned against a wall your clothes would get the "black" on them. This is the air that everyone in American who loved in an urban area breathed.

We have not seen the likes of the smog in London in 1952:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London
even in LA or China.

I would say therefore that the air is much cleaner than it has been in quite a few centuries in most parts of the world!

Before saying that air is currently "dirty" to children I believe they should be aware of the history so they would not make an improper judgment as to the severity of that claim.

Water is yet another matter.
There's a difference in saying "It's dirty" versus "It's cleaner than it was 100 years ago". Is that really the lesson our kids should take from this? It's like saying the water in my pool is not cold, because it's warmer than it was 2 weeks ago. Believe me; it's cold. Hey kids: jump in!

I would think that removing the pollutants that people are accountable for could give you an idea of what clean air is or should be. Regardless of history, if your society is still putting crap in the air, feeling that it's "clean enough" is just inviting the same behavior that increases pollution to begin with.

Is "cleaner" good enough?

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 5:01 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene McGill View Post
There's a difference in saying "It's dirty" versus "It's cleaner than it was 100 years ago". Is that really the lesson our kids should take from this? It's like saying the water in my pool is not cold, because it's warmer than it was 2 weeks ago. Believe me; it's cold. Hey kids: jump in!

I would think that removing the pollutants that people are accountable for could give you an idea of what clean air is or should be. Regardless of history, if your society is still putting crap in the air, feeling that it's "clean enough" is just inviting the same behavior that increases pollution to begin with.

Is "cleaner" good enough?
"Cleaner"? Maybe. It is all a trade-off. If we want it to be as clean as nature would let it be, that is one thing, perfectly clean? Then we would need processing plants to take naturally polluted air in and clean it.

It becomes then an issue of definition and measurement (what pollutants are unacceptable? which are acceptable?). Definitions of "clean" are different in different parts of the planet; not just for air, but for water, food, medicines, etc.

Then there is the cost. If it took the GNP of the entire world to make the air and/or water perfect I doubt that the humans would accept this. Somewhere there is a value for effort/money proposition that has to be made and that value must be acceptable to the society it would apply to.

As to your pool analogy, yes, if the kids found it acceptable because it is now warmer than 2 weeks ago, then fine jump in. It is after all what the kids would find acceptable, not what you might think is acceptable. They have to take the consequences of their actions, not you.

In my view, you tell your children that life is a series of propositions, problems, that get sent to them. They need to see that for any decision they make they should understand the consequences of that decision.

Phrases like "dirty" or "clean" add a non-measurable, emotional aspect to making the decision. Emotion is not a good thing to base decisions on.

Is this what I did with my children? Yes. It is exactly what I did. It has worked out well for our family.

I know I'm different in this view than many, perhaps most. I am, however, an engineer.

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 5:31 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Pittsburgh was nice, you just had to use sense when buying a home. The hilly terrain had many air safe places to live..
People would by a house next to J&L and wonder why they are sick all the time…
You had to follow the rich, they knew where to live.. I grew up in Lawrenceville it was two hills away from the mills and the air was nice..
What was nice about living here was people could make parts that nobody else had... I remember getting things chromed for nothing all the time and it was real nice chrome, not this crap that have today..
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 20, 5:53 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

That's the annoying part with CA, people moan and groan about the smog laws on newer cars.. if they weren't implemented can you imagine haw nasty the air would be?
I wish they would take more out of the smog program, such as vehicles that are not really on the road anymore.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 1:19 AM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Heh, before we white devils came to what's now the LA basin, the locals called it the valley of smoke. Smog preceded the evil white man; but it's evil white man's fault. LA basin
Research Mexico City. City of 20M in a volcanic valley and it's air pollution troubles.
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 1:25 AM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

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Originally Posted by tacomatrd View Post
That's the annoying part with CA, people moan and groan about the smog laws on newer cars.. if they weren't implemented can you imagine haw nasty the air would be?
I wish they would take more out of the smog program, such as vehicles that are not really on the road anymore.

Wan to restate both comments?
Neither made any sense and don't dovetail. That means go together.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 7:30 AM
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Need to bring back the old “Don’t Pollute” commercials with the native Indian that had the tear in his eye...
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 7:39 AM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

I am all for running clean, just as long as it is reasonable and obtainable. I think the O2 Sensor/EFI is what really cleaned up the exhaust and air more than the converter itself. And how will still have tons of alerts about ozone action days, and pollution, that is primarily because they keep lowering the standard. If they were using 1970s standards, I doubt there would be 5% as much alerts.
I have considered putting cats on my El Camino if/when I need to replace the exhaust. They are cheap now, and not that restrictive.

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 10:01 AM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66sc View Post
Wan to restate both comments?
Neither made any sense and don't dovetail. That means go together.
That's the annoying part with CA, people moan and groan about the smog laws on newer cars.. if they weren't implemented can you imagine haw nasty the air would be?

I wish they would take more cars out of the smog program, such as older vehicles that are not really on the road anymore.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 12:57 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Back then it was the pollution above ground that everybody worried about. Now it's the pollution ON the ground that's the real problem. They have needles all over the place, human waste piling up on the street, tent cities, convulsing heroin addicts, Typhus, a real threat of Medieval style PLAGUE from said issues, etc. etc. etc. Great job cleaning up, California!

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 2:27 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

Few years back in what used to be a decent part of the sfv saw some hispanic lady holding her kids hand waiting for a light to turn green

Gas station bathroom 40 feet away mind you

Kid whips it out right there and does his thing, Mom could care less. Yeah ground pollution


The smog laws that are knocking all 90s and older cars off the road are stupid....I got rid of mine cause each year they readgins would be about the same but limits got so restrictivbe you had no choice but to sell them. Cant burn cleaner than new? Thats bs

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 20, 5:13 PM
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Re: Old photos of Los Angeles

I simply do not trust the EPA, nor any selective EPA, such as Kalifornia's, CalEPA, very misleading, and wholly reliant on the extremely biased, useless, and totally corrupt World Health Organization.

We had the EPA come in and force us to put an arsenic treatment plant in for our drinking water, AND< force us onto city water piped into this area, in for 92 people in our rural tract of houses, because the EPA felt that 10 parts of arsenic PER BILLION was "almost safe". This was down from their former 50 parts PER BILLION. Where did the EPA get their "fndings"? NOT from testing, but, from two "scientists" that also did NO testing what so ever on arsenic in drinking water, whom worked for the WHO. Later, while the city water pipeline was going into our area, we found many "take off stubs", closed off feeders, for the 5K more homes, in rural tracts of housing they wanted to put in to house a new copper mine worker's housing project.

Case went further. ALL properties in the control area of rural housing were on less than two acres each, but, other rural housing not 1/8th mile from this tract were NOT forced to do anything. No arsenic treatment, no city water systems, nothing.


Today, from that treated city water that is supposed to be so good and clean, we have to use pitcher filters for drinking and cooking water, and lotion to stop the itching from bathing in it. Grass will not grow, neither will home foods planted in the area. This was 8 years ago, EPA says "all is right and good". Only good thing, the city is raking in the fees for their useless water.


DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING THE EPA HAS TO SAY.
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