Ford's Super Duty Powertrains... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

They finally released the power figures on the new 7.3L gasoline engine - just slightly more powerful than the GM 6.6L. An interesting thing is that the new Power Stroke diesel is going to have forged steel pistons (not sure what the advantage is - maybe some engine builders can clarify for me).

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...lling-details/

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 11:33 AM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Steel pistons can handle a lot higher peak cylinder pressure and temps. The latest designs keep the mass in check, with all the benefits of the higher grade material.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 11:47 AM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

A lot of the towing guys on the RV forums didn't seem too impressed with the 7.3 power numbers. But power isn't everything.... the 7.3 was designed for mpg under load, and longevity/durability. It'll be interesting to see how those pan out.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 2:53 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

One other aspect of a steel piston is that its heat transfer is less than aluminum and keeps heat in the chamber and not in the oil. That extra heat is a benefit for a Diesel. And the thermal expansion rates for steel would be less than many typical piston alloys, allowing or a tighter fit.
I had a chat with the chief engineer from a piston company and he oddly noted that the piston temperatures in a Detroit Diesel (2 stroke) were higher than the melting temperature of aluminum pistons.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 4:45 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulb122 View Post
A lot of the towing guys on the RV forums didn't seem too impressed with the 7.3 power numbers. But power isn't everything.... the 7.3 was designed for mpg under load, and longevity/durability. It'll be interesting to see how those pan out.

As a towing guy the diesel torque on grades is the true advantage over gassers.


I too am interested in seeing what the 7.3L can do.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 4:57 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Ford just came out with the hp/tq number for their new pushrod 7.3 gasser.

430 hp @5500
475 tq @4000

Detuned in commercial chassis trucks 450-750 to:

350 hp
469 tq

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 5:20 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelle_Nut View Post
As a towing guy the diesel torque on grades is the true advantage over gassers.


I too am interested in seeing what the 7.3L can do.
I think those guys were comparing it to v10s in motorhomes, and other current gas engines. I think they expected numbers that would blow away current gas offerings and were dissapointed. But, the 7.3 wasn't designed to make diesel numbers. It was meant to be a more efficient gas option.

Diesel will always trump gas for outright towing power, but it's not for everyone. A good gasser can be sufficient for many, and efficiency can make them even better. Gas pickups weigh less, cost less, and in 3/4 tons, can have more payload capacity (and less towing capability)

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 5:50 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulb122 View Post
I think those guys were comparing it to v10s in motorhomes, and other current gas engines. I think they expected numbers that would blow away current gas offerings and were dissapointed. But, the 7.3 wasn't designed to make diesel numbers. It was meant to be a more efficient gas option.

Diesel will always trump gas for outright towing power, but it's not for everyone. A good gasser can be sufficient for many, and efficiency can make them even better. Gas pickups weigh less, cost less, and in 3/4 tons, can have more payload capacity (and less towing capability)
Fords V10 was inevitably not going to pass more restrictive emission regulations and has had some issues dropping valves, in as little as 60k miles. They weren’t very powerful and are very thirsty. The gas motor option can be a great option for those not looking for monster towing capacity but want increased payload, such a slide in camper types.

As long as ford doesn’t go crazy on the 7.3 gasser price ,as an optional engine, and the 7.3 can muster acceptable mpg towing, I think it could sell well. I do have to admit that ford engineers paid homage to GM’s LS design,(have you seen pics of the new 7.3 and how similar it looks to an LS?), on their new “pushrod” big block. Many thought the 460 LIMA motor was going to be fords last pushrod ohv big block?

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 9:48 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagner View Post
One other aspect of a steel piston is that its heat transfer is less than aluminum and keeps heat in the chamber and not in the oil. That extra heat is a benefit for a Diesel. And the thermal expansion rates for steel would be less than many typical piston alloys, allowing or a tighter fit.
I had a chat with the chief engineer from a piston company and he oddly noted that the piston temperatures in a Detroit Diesel (2 stroke) were higher than the melting temperature of aluminum pistons.

Hence the oil cooling spray underneath the crown of that piston!!

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 19, 7:34 AM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagner View Post
One other aspect of a steel piston is that its heat transfer is less than aluminum and keeps heat in the chamber and not in the oil. That extra heat is a benefit for a Diesel. And the thermal expansion rates for steel would be less than many typical piston alloys, allowing or a tighter fit.
I had a chat with the chief engineer from a piston company and he oddly noted that the piston temperatures in a Detroit Diesel (2 stroke) were higher than the melting temperature of aluminum pistons.
Our OP2 stroke sees crown temps in the 500-520 C range. We are also running in the 200-240Bar PCP range as well. We've tested 4140, Inconel, and tool steel variants for our crowns. Also applying TBC's to keep the heat in check. Gallery cooling is our only means of cooling and we run 3 gpm of oil under each piston. We've seen oxidation on our pistons so you know we are running hot!

John B
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 19, 11:37 AM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack View Post
Our OP2 stroke sees crown temps in the 500-520 C range. We are also running in the 200-240Bar PCP range as well. We've tested 4140, Inconel, and tool steel variants for our crowns. Also applying TBC's to keep the heat in check. Gallery cooling is our only means of cooling and we run 3 gpm of oil under each piston. We've seen oxidation on our pistons so you know we are running hot!
Inconel? An Inconel piston? Bring money...what did you wind up using? And 3 GPM? That's quite a pump..seperate cooler for oil coming off the pistons?

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 19, 11:44 AM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

I do know. My buddy has a large truck shop. He is praying FORD keeps building the POWER STROKE. If they stop building the STROKER he will have to lay off some people.
How about , " LIFTING " the cab OFF to change the exhaust pipe that goes down directly dead center on the back of the engine and over the bellhousing.
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My friends please remember
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
SPEED KILLS............. DRIVE A FORD
YOU WILL LIVE FOREVER
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
Bob
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 19, 12:33 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinls5 View Post
I do know. My buddy has a large truck shop. He is praying FORD keeps building the POWER STROKE. If they stop building the STROKER he will have to lay off some people.
How about , " LIFTING " the cab OFF to change the exhaust pipe that goes down directly dead center on the back of the engine and over the bellhousing.
.................................................. .................................................. ..........
My friends please remember
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
SPEED KILLS............. DRIVE A FORD
YOU WILL LIVE FOREVER
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
Bob
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 8th, 19, 8:55 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinls5 View Post
I do know. My buddy has a large truck shop. He is praying FORD keeps building the POWER STROKE. If they stop building the STROKER he will have to lay off some people.
How about , " LIFTING " the cab OFF to change the exhaust pipe that goes down directly dead center on the back of the engine and over the bellhousing.
.................................................. .................................................. ..........
My friends please remember
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
SPEED KILLS............. DRIVE A FORD
YOU WILL LIVE FOREVER
.................................................. .................................................. ...........
Bob
You don't have to pull the cab for the up-pipe. Remove the turbo, unbolt the pipe from the manifolds and exhaust, remove pipe. In fact the Powerstroke is designed to come out the front of the truck, techs just found that it was easier to pull the cab.

Powerstrokes are so popular that is why there are a lot of shops. My trouble free 166,000 mile 6.0L yes, 6.0L is an awesome machine.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 9th, 19, 11:56 PM
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Re: Ford's Super Duty Powertrains...

Remember the Power Stroke is the new term. The Original Diesel in a Ford pick/up was a........... ??? The International Diesel, That was a Gem!...
Bob


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