Street Car RWHP/TQ - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Pat
 
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Street Car RWHP/TQ

Just curious what all feel is above average HP and TQ to the rear wheels for a street car with a BBC? I hear people talk about how much power they think they have but bet if truth be told they would be shocked if they saw what was actually getting to the rear wheels.


This is just a fun topic not looking to start a war. I had my car on a chassis dyno last year and it is going back on this Friday when we put the new carb on.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 1:45 PM
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Phil
 
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Too many variables IMO. Compression ratios, intake and carb options, heads, etc. to hazard a guess... The average horsepower of a 1970 and older BBC is going to be more than '71 and newer, primarily due to a drop in compression ratios I'm guessing - don't know for sure 'tho...just my .02.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 1:59 PM
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"The Stig"
 
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Everyone's version of "street" is different.

I have a very street-friendly 383" LS1 stroker putting down 434hp/449ft-lbs to the wheels, and I was rather disappointed in that... If I was building a BB car, I'd want at least 600 to the wheels.

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 1:59 PM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Basically on an automatic with a 12 bolt you will loose about 25% to the tire (some as high as 30%). For example the 1970 LS6 Chevelle was rated at 450 hp but that was with headers when GM rated it and the chassis dyno had the old inefficient cast iron manifolds so that hurt it more than normal the LS6 did 295 hp to the tire. They also did a 426 stock Hemi car and that did like 335 HP to the tire. I think if you put a motor on a dyno and then put in car and assuming you had headers in both tests 25% loss. With a stick 20% loss. My Chevelle does 545 HP to the tire and has 725 motor HP (25% loss) with turbo 400. Another guy I know had 690 hp on motor installed motor rolled it over to next bay and it did like 520 hp at the tire. The newer cars are more efficient like 15% loss to the tires. The TQ loss seems to be a little less percentagewise so if you lost like 25% on HP the tq maybe like 23%.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 2:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek69SS View Post
Everyone's version of "street" is different.

I have a very street-friendly 383" LS1 stroker putting down 434hp/449ft-lbs to the wheels, and I was rather disappointed in that... If I was building a BB car, I'd want at least 600 to the wheels.

600 HP to the rear wheels? seems like you would need to build quite a beast to accomplish that I will share my numbers after I get mine dialed in on Friday. The way it sits now I think I am at 430 HP and 480 TQ to the rear wheels. Guy that does my work said that is very respectful for a street friendly engine. I have thought about doing things to get more, but then I get realistic and think for what... I rarely even use what I have now and it is really well behaved, will idle for days and with the TKO600 dropping down to 15 or so cause no lugging or bucking, if I am between 4th and 5th.


I have a 454. bored 30 with Eagle rotating assembly, 10.6 to 1. Brodix Race Rites, ARH Headers. Cam is 566/566 224/224. Air Gap and putting an 850 DP on it this week. taking off the QF 780 with vacuum secondary.


Like I said was not looking to get into a big debate, just curious..
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 19, 10:08 PM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Real question here. At what point is the power counterproductive? I mean, at what point do you struggle to keep traction with normal tires? I may be off base, because my car is still in pieces, but seems like 450-500 rwhp is about the consensus of the sweet spot of enough power but not so much that you lose drivability in a street car. If you go with slicks or strictly a track car of some kind, all bets are off. My goal is 450-500rwhp naturally aspirated, and if that doesnít work I guess I will eventually turbo or super charge it.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 2:23 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

My Mark Jones 468 made 625 HP/625 TQ at the shop dyno. Rear wheel 440 HP on dyno was with restrictive headers and 2.5 Flowmaster exhaust . With TH400/Gearvendors and a loose convertor and 3.73 gears, Power steering. A/C hooked up (Vintage Air) etc. Loaded street car.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 7:05 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Iím not sure. My car likely has in the 300 horse/350 torque range at the wheels and itís plenty for me. Iím more than happy with it.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 7:30 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

A sign of maturity Gavin! To Steve's point, I'd be happy with 500+ to the rear wheels. MJ468 600/600 , low restriction exhaust and a clutch. I'm happy with less now, but prefer a different charateristic, like +150 ft lbs from my 427.

ALSO, that 600/600 to me is almost ABOVE the limit of street car chassis.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 8:34 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

I think what is more important than numbers is what it puts down at the track. A race isn't done in high gear only and dyno numbers are variant on the driveline parts in the car.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 9:03 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

The dyno is a tool to be used to help tune the motor and see what's going on. It gives a general idea on the situation. I think the track is the place where you can do more testing to get the results but also get driving dialed in etc. Some cars are also not set up for the track as good as others like gearing and handling/launching stuff etc. so they may have the same RWHP/TQ but one does much better than the other due to traction etc. People focus on the hp but also the tq and how the curve is also very important. On the 600 hp to the tires with a BBC you will need about 800 hp if you go an automatic. This could be accomplished a variety of ways from large cubes for NA to blower/turbo nitrous. On the NA the combination will vary if you are going to use pump gas and is this a race only or street car etc. I have a 540 that does 545 / 515 (hp/tq 6,100/4,900 rpm) to the tire and it is zippy.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 10:04 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

I made just under 300Hp to the wheels uncorrected. 4 door 1957 chevy.
Buddy made well over 500 Hp to his wheels coyote 2015 mustang supercharged 5.0 Not stock.

I beat him in a heads up race at the local drag strip.
Beat other cars with 475 to the wheels.

Just a number and like said the drag strip is where it happens.

I have been in a Dodge with 750 to the wheels and it felt very slow but was a 5000 lb ride so it needed it.
Fox body Mustang i was in with 600 to the wheels and 3.23 rear gears TH400 trans.
That thing you could not control on the street.. 35 mph in high gear would blow the tires off uncontrollably.

At the 1/4 mile drag strip it went 9.1 ET.
Congrats to you that put it to the ground.
I put mine to the ground and that wins races.
So my under 300 to the wheels works well.
Yea i would like much more but not so much that i can't pull my 20 foot Pontoon to the lake 150+ miles away

Here is my under 300 to the wheels vs the 2015 coyote mustang of my buddies. He has smaller blower pulley exhaust and a tune. 6 speed and 373 gears. Fun stuff. He sold it a couple weeks after the race.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 10:13 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

I'll take a time slip any day over a chassis dyno number. JMHO and experience. Not here to debate it. Each is own.

I take pride in the fact I drive my car 200 miles round trip to the drag strip,look 100% STOCK and get one of these:
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 10:56 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
I made just under 300Hp to the wheels uncorrected. 4 door 1957 chevy.
Buddy made well over 500 Hp to his wheels coyote 2015 mustang supercharged 5.0 Not stock.

I beat him in a heads up race at the local drag strip.
Beat other cars with 475 to the wheels.

Just a number and like said the drag strip is where it happens.

I have been in a Dodge with 750 to the wheels and it felt very slow but was a 5000 lb ride so it needed it.
Fox body Mustang i was in with 600 to the wheels and 3.23 rear gears TH400 trans.
That thing you could not control on the street.. 35 mph in high gear would blow the tires off uncontrollably.

At the 1/4 mile drag strip it went 9.1 ET.
Congrats to you that put it to the ground.
I put mine to the ground and that wins races.
So my under 300 to the wheels works well.
Yea i would like much more but not so much that i can't pull my 20 foot Pontoon to the lake 150+ miles away

Here is my under 300 to the wheels vs the 2015 coyote mustang of my buddies. He has smaller blower pulley exhaust and a tune. 6 speed and 373 gears. Fun stuff. He sold it a couple weeks after the race.
That was one hell of a launch! I bet he had 12-15 MPH on you at the top end. What were the times?

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 19, 10:56 AM
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Re: Street Car RWHP/TQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr 4 speed View Post
I'll take a time slip any day over a chassis dyno number. JMHO and experience. Not here to debate it. Each is own.

I take pride in the fact I drive my car 200 miles round trip to the drag strip,look 100% STOCK and get one of these:

I'll take a time slip over dyno numbers any day too. My car made something like 325 HP at the wheels. Runs 11.70's @ 116. Plenty of "600 HP" cars that are slower. Had a buddy with a supercharged 2003 Mustang, made 457 HP at the tires. He could not make a clean pass in that car, broke lots of stuff too. I think the best he did was mid 12's with that car. We used to joke that he was an 12 second driver with a 11 second car.
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