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Well I think my life turned upside down.

4K views 52 replies 31 participants last post by  Jim Mac 
#1 ·
My moms been forgetting stuff the last few years. Mainly the short term stuff like conversations and where she hid her wallets (obsessively compusive). She does well on her own, eating cleaning, hygiene etc.My daughter lives about 5 minutes from her and checks up on her every other day and things are going okay. We decide to head out of town for 4 days, daughter checks on gma, she cant find her hidden wallets but decide to find them when we get home.
Well my moms gets it in her head someone came in the house and took them. She's having anxiety attacks, calls the police who checks up on her. When she calms down she realizes she hid them somewhere and the police calls me to let us know what's happening. I call her and she assures me she's fine. I call a few times, my daughter is with me calls, wife calls. Everything seems fine. Next day I talk to mom in the morning, everything's fine. Few hours later the police calls my daughter and the same thing happens. No wallets and she thinks she's been robbed, tells the police she's been afraid lately. We decide to head home the next day but have my son in law go hang out with her. Of course she calls the cops in the morning and we get another call.
So we get to her house and decide to take her to the ER for a check up. Doc says its classic age related dementia. Now the fun part. Calling around town, basically memory care for folks starts at around $6500 a month in town! She has to go thru her savings then sell her house and go thru all that before any govt run assistance is available. At those prices she might have enough for 3 years of care or less.
Im 57, wife is the bread winner of the family. We can survive on my wife's salary. The serious conversation has been do I quit my job and take on being her caregiver? She does not want to live in thebsame house as me and my wife since the house is small and cramped. We're thinking I move to sierra vista and sleep at her house maybe 4 nights a week, bring her to tucson 3 nights as a guest in our house so I can still hang out with my wife. ( im actually the cook and shopper at home). Tomorrow my daughter and wife is going to start calling around for a assisted living quarters. But we aren't too hopeful we'll find something very affordable. Moms got a take home about $2000 a month after taxes, health insurance, property taxes and home insurance. Dad was in the military for 5 years and has a dd214 which might help her about 1200 and if we rent her house that would probably clear $1000 a month. Rest would come from her savings.
Or become a caregiver, Unfortunately charge her to cover all the back and forth from house to house (80miles apart)and basically running two households and basically becoming a full time babysitter. Hate to say it but we never thought this day would come. Jim
 
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#3 ·
:cool: I'm sorry to hear about your Mother-in-Law. Been there, done that. The Mother-in-Law was doing fairly well living on her own in a senior condo set up. Then she fell and broke her spine in two places. Everything went down hill from there. The Wife (and I) spent a great deal of time and energy dealing with her mom. Long, sad story short: The Mother-in-Law passed 8 months after breaking her spine. The cause of death was listed as "Fail to Thrive (STARVATION)."

Here's my point: if The Mother-in-Law had been staying at our home, there would have been a huge investigation for Elder Abuse. We were "fortunate" that she'd been placed in a care facility after the fall...

Same story with a buddy: his Mother-in-Law stayed with them until they were about ready to do really bad things (divorce included). "Fortunately" they were able to get her into a care facility.

Professional care, either at a facility or by professionals in the home is the only option in the long run.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Just went through this with my girl friends mom. Exact same situation. We sold her house 5 years ago. She got the pension from her husband from the military. She lived with us for 2 tears then went into a home for a few months and hated it. We moved her back in and she was happyish for another 3 years. My gf quit work to take care of her, but her work needed her so she got to work from home. That was good because she got to keep her medical.

The last 6 months we paid about $16.00 an hour for someone that comes in to basically take care of mom (babysit and companionship) with the essentials you would have to give to a newborn. We had them during the day and did the rest ourselves at night Professional inhouse services are available at a higher cost. Didn't ask what she was paying for that.

Demetia patients progress through stages and you should use the net to learn what you can. Basically they are regressing back to childhood.

Well the mom fell and hurt her hip, insurance covers that and the stay for rehab, but the surgery pushed her over the edge, when she came home it was hospice care, just take care until she passes. It was rough, my gf has been through a lot. Mom passed a few weeks ago and funeral this sat. 83 yrs old.

If you need someone to talk to, hit me with a pm and I'll send you my number. I think you should sell or rent the house and give her the ultimatum, move in with us or the home. If she's still aware enough you should get her to do a trust and list you as the trustee for the trust and any medical decisions. See if she wants a DNR...do not resuscitate.

If there's other family members you should all get together and have a talk.
 
#16 ·
Been there done that...almost the same situation as "Dutch" describes. VERY V-E-R-Y good advice about getting the affairs of the elderly in order. In both my mom's case and my wife's mom's case we were ready when the need arose. It is not a matter of greasing the rails for inheritances, if such things come into play, it IS a matter of medical power of attorney, estate executor designations and the ability to have access to the money an elderly person may have in order to spend it for them for their care / housing / etc. A trust fund is also important, don't get me wrong, but soooooo many things need to be done for the elderly. W/O the "paperwork" in place it becomes a nightmare of things you just can't do because the powers that be will NOT accept you doing those things w/o the paperwork in place. As the saying goes "Your mileage may vary"...each state is different in terms of what sort of paperwork needs to be in place but at absolute minimum the medical power of attorney and living will are a necessity.
 
#5 ·
I really feel for you. We went through this 20 years ago; we meaning my family. I was working overseas at the time, and fortunately my dad was able to handle the situation, and my younger brother lived in town too. Folks were in mid 80s.

Her dad, my grandpa, developed dementia when he was in his 80s and the fantastic stories. He would tell my aunt that my mom was being so mean to her, when in fact mom was the one who did the most for him even though she lived 70 miles away. She did more for him than a couple of his other kids who lived in town.

She had a stroke, and dad couldn't physically take care for her anymore at home. So, nursing home time, 4,500 a month back then. I visited her in the home the next time I was home on break. She still remembered me, but they get that look after a while...lights on, nobody home; best way I can describe it. Next time I was able to visit about nine months later I got the worst experience of my life. Went in to the room, and she asked my dad "who's this guy"? I couldn't take it. Tears just flooded out of my eyes, and I had to go out to the car. Worst moment of my life.

I had done my homework years earlier. No internet of course, so a trip to the county welfare department or whatever they call it nowadays. You're right. basically they have to spend down assets until essentially broke, before any government benefit is available. I really do feel for you. It comes as a shock, as you know.
 
#6 ·
Oh Jim I an so sorry to hear this. My Wife and I went through this with her Mother. She was Bed Bound and had to be lifted in and out of bed. She had a house 200mi away and my Wife was basically forced to retire because she was gone so much. We Finally got her moved down here, but California is a little different with the paying for stuff. I don't remember exactly, but I don't remember having to sell everything off....I would look into that a little further. As someone else mentioned make sure she has a Trust, and beware of siblings. I guess not buying that house was a good thing. Again very sorry your having to go through this.
 
#8 ·
That's rough.

My Dad has early onset dementia and is starting to get pretty bad. He tells me things I and I don't know if he dreamed it or not. My Mom thinks he'll need a care facility within a year. I guess we'll see.
 
#9 ·
I sympathize with you. BTDT with my mom. She had a stroke which left her wheelchair bound for 10 years. Was in assisted living for 8 years which cost way more than she could afford. Did not have a trust. This was 150 miles away from me in the same town my sister lives in and sister checked in on Mom every day, took her to the doctor, etc. TG for sister doing that. She tried living with my sister for a year but that didn't work out. She was very demanding and didn't get along with people, long story there. We had to rent out her house to help make ends meet (still required much of her savings). I was the landlord for the house from 150 miles away. What a nightmare. She fell out of the wheelchair and broke her hip in '16 which started a downhill slide, in and out of hospitals, rehab, etc., then hospice care, and passed away in '17. My sister, who had a full time job and family to care for, spent much of her free time tending to all of that. One bit of advice I can offer is get a power of attorney while you can so you can make important financial and healthcare decisions for her when she shouldn't or can't, and prepay funeral expenses so that money is set aside and can't be touched by others or count as assets when applying for Medicaid assistance.
 
#13 ·
At least here in IN, when applying for MediCAID (not Medicare) assistance there's a 5 year "look back" for transfer of assets. If any have been transferred in those 5 years, that amount is deducted from any assistance or the equivalent in monthly payments delays that amount of time before assistance starts.
 
#11 ·
My Father was smart about his finances. He hated the government and the IRS. He took everything and put it in a trust for myself and two sisters. He past away two years ago. My mother is still alive and lives in the house but own's nothing except a 1999 Buick Park Avenue. Their three kids own everything else.
 
#14 ·
Jim. Wishing you the best. You are not alone out there. My wifes been dealing with the same with her mom for a few years now, who today is in a nursing home, after her assets dried up from being in assisted living. Thankfully the home shes at is a nice one ,unlike some that you hear about. Its sad to see it happen, but you can only do so much. Hang in there. Hope it works out well with you.
 
#15 ·
My wife is pretty forgetful especially long term, so when she was having short term problems she then started taking my CoQ10 and she says thing just start to pop back in her head, so I guess it works for her, might be worth a try here.
 
#17 ·
The previous advice is spot on. I can't stress enough to be prepared. See an elder care attorney and get the powers of attorney. They can help you with the legal advice. Make sure the will is in order, see if a trust is advisable in your case, and read up on what Medicare covers and doesn't. There are limits to the amount of time Medicare pays for hospitalization and rehab. Also, I highly recommend Medigap insurance for the elderly instead of Medicare Advantage. Medigap covers everything 100% that Medicare doesn't. After seeing what can happen, I'm trying to be prepared financially for the day when I need assisted living or ?? I've seen some of the crap holes that some people that rely on government assistance have to live in. I don't want to have to live in one of those.
 
#18 ·
For what it is worth. If and when someone sees assisted living in their future make the move while you can do it with your own money. Once you are living in the new facility some states will allow you to stay where you are if / when you run outta money and go onto assistance. If you run your assets down too far while living at home many states can tell you where they are willing to pay your bills when you transition to assisted living. Be assured they are not gonna send you to the nicer places when it is their dime...crap places as mentioned above are where you could be headed if the state is picking your next address.

I worked in systems engineering at Hewlett Packard and the benefit program included a plan for assisted living expenses. Yes we had to pay a premium but the program offered a given % of your monthly assisted living cost for an UNLIMITED number of months. That is RIGHT I said UNLIMITED number of months. My wife snapped that up so fast it was not funny. Yes we have invested in paying the premiums but at todays prices (and believe me we saw the prices up close and personal in paying her moms bills of somewhere around $60K+ per year) fortunately we paid it with her moms own money). The cost was HUGE for the 10 YEARS mom was in a facility likely near $750 total. Think about what ya gotta earn to have $60K+ net available after taxes. Any financial planner / finance guy we have ever talked to has said "WOW whatever you do keep paying the premiums for this coverage no matter what happens....stop eating / sell the car / don't use the central air in summer if ya have to but do not let this assisted living coverage lapse for non payment"! Plans like we have are not available anymore but there are plans out there that can make a difference and can be purchased somewhat later in life ...a word to the wise is sufficient.
 
#19 ·
Sorry for your situation, been there done that.
FWIW Here is my take on things these are NOT options.
Power of Attorney. Both Medical and business.
Living will. Let your Mom make the hard decisions while she is competent.
A Family Trust will solve so many things. Again Mom and the kids discuss the trust and get it in stone.

We had a family trust, from the time my Mom passed (Dad died first) until all things were settled and the books closed was 94 days.
No Lawyers no squabbles. When Dad set up the trust we had the "talk" he basically said it's my money and property and if you two can't accept what I want to do with it, I'll leave everything to the ASPCA (he hated dogs).

My brother is in TX, I'm in WY and Mom was in CA. We ended up with a 24/7 live-in caregiver. My brother and I interviewed a bunch and found a real gem. $4500 a month plus room and board. It was a very good thing, several times Mom double dosed her bill box and would have died from that, but the live-in aide checked the pills every day and redo as needed
 
#20 ·
A little scary to think that the wife and I will probably be on the other end of this before too much longer, being in our eighties.

We did set up a trust with our son being the one in charge of everything bu the house isn't paid off because of a stupid 2nd mortgage to buy a second house (which our daughter now lives in)

Maybe I can get enough out of our two Chevelles to last a few years. :confused:
 
#21 ·
Jim, well wishes from our family. We are in a similar situation with my Mother in Law. Sold her house and is surviving on her pension, but the money's going out faster than it's coming in. MIL wasted a ton of money for one years rent at an assisted living center which she hated. We rented her a small house nearby and were lucky enough to find a really caring lady that comes in 4 days a week for a reasonable rate. Between her and the rest of the family, things are working out for the time being... Good luck to you guys...
 
#22 ·
These situations stink! Period!! My father was diagnosed with Alzheimers at age 75 and lived to 88. Every year he got worse. At about the halfway point he couldn't remember me anymore. Few years later my younger brother, then 65, was also diagnosed with Alzheimers. He went down hill fast, living only three years. I was very fortunate on the financial end because both had enough assets and assistance to make it to the end. I'm 75, in great shape, still ride a Harley and drive my '62 Impala and still work part time, but I constantly worry if it's hereditary and if I'll come down with it eventually.

Agree with the others, get an attorney to look at the in's and out's of Medicaid and state assistance. Unfortunately in most states there is a "look back" period, meaning you can't transfer funds after a given period and have them exempt. This applies to most all assets including a home. I think the look back is typically 5 years.

Best wishes, we've all been there and if we haven't yet we will !!
 
#23 ·
Sorry to hear this Jim. I am currently dealing with this exact same issue with my MIL. My wife was able to get her on medicare, so she is covered until death. If you end up having to put her in assisted living, have a rock solid diagnosis from her doctor. Make sure management at any care facility does not try to get her to sign anything. The facility my MIL is in coerced her into signing away her income and pension, even though they knew she has dementia. It is not an easy part of life to deal with, but if you have a close family and can work out a schedule, keep mom at home and share care of her. Wishing you well, Terry
 
#24 ·
Went through this with my mom. We were fortunate in that I have 4 brothers and 3 sisters and we all lived within an hour of our parents home. So we were able to rotate days to help care for her. My dad was still around and with it mentally but weaker physically.
I have purchased long term care insurance for my wife and I because our 3 kids live on the east coast and in France. I would hate to think they would have to uproot their lives to come care for us.
I wish I could say it’s going to get better.
Hang in there.
 
#25 ·
I have a good friend I work with in a "civic" org, that takes care of his mom 24/7/365. Alzhemers. It overwhelms him. I dont know if I have the charity. plus mom let me ge kicked out of house @ 17 by a fckd up step dad and is still the most self-absorbed person I know, so... its HARD to be a good Jesuit sometimes, as I cant find any charity in my heart for the woman! ) Its a hard row to hoe Jim. my bud Kev is exactly our age, 58.

GREAT advice here, as Von and others have said, GO SEE AN ELDER LAW ATTY YESTERDAY! Seriously, a good one will help in many ways as they've seen it all.
 
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#28 ·
Roger that Gene. We talked to a lawyer who took care of everything including VA benefits for my MIL who served in WWII. As an aside her being in a WAR prepared her well for trying to deal with me but that is another story. There are just too many issues and too many folks out there ready to say "NO" or ask for more money from the elderly. You just gotta be prepared and well armed with the right paperwork and documents. Not something to undertake with a package from Legal Zoom. This stuff with paperwork must be done while the individual is still able to make decisions for themselves. He who hesitates is lost certainly applies here.

Two examples why a lawyer is the way to go.....

My mom transferred some cash to me when she was healthy. After she died, within less than 2 years of the transfer, the Great, now nearly bankrupt , State of Connecticut was after me (as executor) for estate taxes on that transfer. My buddy is a lawyer so he and I took it to the probate court. The State's lawyer argued that the transfer was "in anticipation of death" but what he conveniently forgot was that my mom was traveling all over the US with he friends AFTER the transfer of the funds in question. Probate judge looked at the situation and took a few seconds to think before saying "The State's petition is denied, do we have anything else to cover today?".

My wife's mother was pretty ornery as things progressed...! At some point the facility she was in decided that she needed to be in memory care. Memory Care = MORE money per month in fees and it isn't in the neighborhood of $50 / month believe me. After some period of time perhaps a year in memory care they informed my wife that mom had to leave within 30 days. In looking for a new place we had the medical staff from a couple of other facilities evaluate mom. In every case they said they saw no reason for her to be in memory care. Immediate call to 1-800 Elder Care Lawyer. Some paperwork went back and forth between the facility and the lawyer and the Ombudsman from the State who deals with such things @ assisted living / memory care facilities. A $15,000 check was soon forthcoming from the facility to cover ALL INCREMENTAL COSTS associated with mom's time in Memory Care at that facility.

This was NOT one of those crap elder care facilities we were discussing earlier.

Nuff said!
 
#26 ·
"Thankfully" longevity is not a thing in our family. Die young and make a good looking corpse is our motto.

I've already lived longer than either of my parents and am THE oldest in my extended family now.
And almost cashed that in 3 years ago.

So, I'm on "Bonus Play" now.
 
#27 ·
Sorry to hear. My inlaws are in the beginning of dealing with a similar situation with their parents. It certainly isn't easy for them to make these kind of decisions and I'm sure it can't be for you either.

Here's what they're learning the hard way, and what I'm learning from being somewhat loosely involved as well. She can't continue to live on her own, so you're probably going to end up selling her house anyways. Whatever money she has to her name is probably going to end up being spent on her healthcare anyways. You can choose to preserve what wealth she has left by being her caregiver but know that this choice comes with the cost of pretty much all of your spare time, the cost of your guys' lifestyle, and if you let it go too far, it can begin to cost you your own money and derail your own retirement plans. More often than not, it is easier on everybody just to sell her house and spend down her savings on an assisted living facility until she qualifies for government assistance. The only time I've seen this work is when there are at least 3 or 4 other siblings that are all willing and able to pitch in and split the duties amongst themselves. Everyone's circumstances are a little bit different of course, and I know it sounds kinda selfish to even say this, but don't forget to put a price tag on your own sanity, your own lifestyle, and your own time when you're deciding how to handle all of this.
 
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#30 ·
I do know how you feel though, my Mother will ask me something and ten minute later she will ask me the same thing. She is 82 now and I think her mind is going. Her Mother had the same issue when she got older. Not sure how much more time she has left here in this world.
 
#31 ·
thanks everybody for the prayers and good thoughts. talking to some folks at pima council on aging, they are sending me info and contacts to help set up a miller trust so she can qualify for state aid once she depletes her savings and home. we are looking at a group home later this week. If it works out and her dementia stabilizes she her assists might last 5 years. The doctor explained her living alone after my dad died and not interacting with anyone really takes its toll on some people. I dont thi shes stop talking for more than 3 minutes since Sunday when we took her to the ER akf brought her home with us.
just spending a day with her, going to the store and hearing the same questions every 5 minutes when shes having issues is mentally draining. when shes not in repeat mode she tells me all sorts of stories about growing up. we can talk about places we lived etc

I do notice lack of sleep brings on her true forgetfulness
get her a good night's sleep or hopeful lay after her nap, she wakes up more cognitive
jim
 
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