LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers.. - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 9:32 AM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

My customer in NY that posted his dyno sheet and feed back from the CSC Legend cams have brought this post on.

LSA is really a sum of numbers that in the end, it is what it is. The engine, the rpm, the induction, and the exhaust need a "schedule". This schedule is valve events. This is what is critical, when you start and when you stop. The cid and rpm will put the demands on the engine and power range will determine where and the induction and exhaust supply the how.

For years I have have heard wide lobe sep for good vacuum. Well how about properly cammed engine for the intended rpm range and if the LSA is a 107 then thats what it is. I've got several of you on here and many others with vacuum reports of 11 to 15 inches during idle. These are customers wanting street cars with pop. These are not drag cars. Many circle track sanctioning bodies have Vac rules. Some pull truck stuff also. I have learned over the years manipulating the valve events you can achieve vacuum. These cams aren't on 112 or 114 LSAs I can assure you.

I re-cammed a 632CID engine for a gentleman in Denmark. The post is in my sponsors section. We went from a 256/269 .050" 708/720ish lift cam on a 115 to 253/269 .050" (note not much change at .050") 710/680" lift (again not much change) on a 107 Sep. The car is now just about as fast with the new cam NA as it was with the old cam and a 250 shot. No dyno numbers but just track time, but this had to have been a 150HP increase with cam change. The major change, LSA.

It has taken me years to figure some of this stuff out and I know the publlic is not going to change overnight. All I am wanting to get through to you, the board, that you can skin a cat several ways.
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Mfg Performance Parts
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Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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  #2  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 10:14 AM
67RS502 67RS502 is offline
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

this is like saying that csa is more important then cc
or
that air speed is more important then cfm

nobody is gonna believe you, theyve been brainwashed too long

Keep up the good work Chris!
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  #3  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 10:27 AM
pauls72 pauls72 is online now
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Good post Chris
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  #4  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 10:35 AM
JBoggs JBoggs is online now
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Have plans to call you this winter for a custom grind cam. I suspect there is power to be made. The first version of the Musi/ED crate 555.


Edelbrock Rolling Thunder Performer RPM hydraulic roller Valve lift: .632-inch intake, .648-inch exhaust Camshaft duration: 248 intake/256 exhaust, at .050-inch lift

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  #5  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 10:48 AM
MarkP MarkP is offline
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Chris,

Many cam companies say that with EFI you need a 112-114 LSA. Does it really matter with EFI? Does the LSA work out to be in that range when everything else is figured in?

I had Mike Lewis spec the Comp Cam in my signature at 112 LSA because I was worried about the Holley Avenger MPFI and power brake vacuum. It is going on the dyno next month to see how well it does. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
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Finally started a '69 Chevelle SS project.
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Comp Custom Magnum HR 306/303 Adv dur 246/248@ .050 .680/.647-112LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
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  #6  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 11:16 AM
72BBMonte 72BBMonte is online now
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
All I am wanting to get through to you, the board, that you can skin a cat several ways.

"skin a cat several ways" and a different way than what someone else thinks is not necessarily the wrong or right way.
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  #7  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 11:49 AM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Chris,

Many cam companies say that with EFI you need a 112-114 LSA. Does it really matter with EFI? Does the LSA work out to be in that range when everything else is figured in?

I had Mike Lewis spec the Comp Cam in my signature at 112 LSA because I was worried about the Holley Avenger MPFI and power brake vacuum. It is going on the dyno next month to see how well it does. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
One of my customers just used the MSD Atomic System with the CSC 160-3101 which is on a 109 Sep. With the fuel injection the car picked up HP. this 396 BBC made 550HP/510#/ft of torque.

Most of the EFI stuff I do is LS based. My customers in Austraila have long used 108 and 109 stuff on their engines with no tuning issues and make serious power.
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Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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  #8  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 11:50 AM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72BBMonte View Post
"skin a cat several ways" and a different way than what someone else thinks is not necessarily the wrong or right way.
I'm going to continue to do it the way I think and see where that gets me!

How you coming along sir?
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Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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  #9  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 11:51 AM
Bluegoose1970 Bluegoose1970 is offline
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Meow....purrrr.....Owwww!!
1st try.
Timing is important, next one not alive.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
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  #10  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 12:35 PM
MarkP MarkP is offline
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
One of my customers just used the MSD Atomic System with the CSC 160-3101 which is on a 109 Sep. With the fuel injection the car picked up HP. this 396 BBC made 550HP/510#/ft of torque.
Okay, but are the street manners idle and vacuum pretty good, also? I can make more than enough power for a mostly street car even with the stock 502 cam, but there's no fun in that! I will be putting a t-56 manual in the car, so I will feel every little burp and fart at lower speeds. A cam on 109 LSA doesn't seem to me to have good enough street manners. Can you make a cam do well on the street and make good power? I would think designing a cam for more power will rob street manners. To design-in acceptable street manners would the LSA be higher than 109?
__________________
Finally started a '69 Chevelle SS project.
Engine parts: (Heads, cam & lifters from Lewis Racing Engines)
ZZ502 Short block
AFR 305 CNC 106cc Chambers 8002 springs
Comp Custom Magnum HR 306/303 Adv dur 246/248@ .050 .680/.647-112LSA-108 ICL Morel lifters
Holley Avenger MPFI
612HP/594TQ
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  #11  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 12:45 PM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Okay, but are the street manners idle and vacuum pretty good, also? I can make more than enough power for a mostly street car even with the stock 502 cam, but there's no fun in that! I will be putting a t-56 manual in the car, so I will feel every little burp and fart at lower speeds. A cam on 109 LSA doesn't seem to me to have good enough street manners. Can you make a cam do well on the street and make good power? I would think designing a cam for more power will rob street manners. To design-in acceptable street manners would the LSA be higher than 109?
The cam swap was done because the couple that owns this SS396 Nova is in their 70's. The car spelled like fuel all the time and was not fun to drive with the 246/251 Solid roller in it. They told my customer they would give up power for driveability. Apparently the wife loves this car and they have owned it for many years.

The shop dyno'd the engine as is and then dyno'd it with the new cam after a spring change. With carb the CSC cam made more torque and power in all areas. They then switched the car to the Atomic where it gained more power all over the curve. In the words of the shop owners's help "its a cream puff to drive now." The new customers have echo'd the same and now can enjoy drivning car.

It's not that an LSA gives an engine bad street manners, the wrong lobe area and wrong opening and closing events give it bad manners.
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Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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  #12  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 12:56 PM
BowtieAaron BowtieAaron is offline
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Chris what's your thoughts for boost?

I have always heard, wider the LSA the better..
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  #13  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 1:00 PM
cstraub cstraub is offline
 
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieAaron View Post
Chris what's your thoughts for boost?

I have always heard, wider the LSA the better..
Whole different animal. At least a 112
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Chris Straub
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www.straubtechnologies.com
Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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  #14  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 1:20 PM
72BBMonte 72BBMonte is online now
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
I'm going to continue to do it the way I think and see where that gets me!

How you coming along sir?

You do very well the way you do it, thousands of happy customers.

My deal, I keep getting distracted with other summer activities!

I will post an update on my 565 thread.
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  #15  
Old Aug 8th, 13, 1:36 PM
67SCOTT 67SCOTT is online now
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Default Re: LSA, it is what it is...as it is a sum of numbers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
Okay, but are the street manners idle and vacuum pretty good, also? I can make more than enough power for a mostly street car even with the stock 502 cam, but there's no fun in that! I will be putting a t-56 manual in the car, so I will feel every little burp and fart at lower speeds. A cam on 109 LSA doesn't seem to me to have good enough street manners. Can you make a cam do well on the street and make good power? I would think designing a cam for more power will rob street manners. To design-in acceptable street manners would the LSA be higher than 109?

I've got 1500 miles on my set up from Chris so far this year, it has awesome street manners and it is 4-speed . Now it's not a BBC, it's a aluminum headed, carbureted, 10:1 383, hyd roller 288/296 adv. 232/238 @ .050 .605/.570, 107 LSA. Here's my chassis dyno sheet from Saturday. Like Chris said to me last night on the phone "the torque curve is pancake flat". The car starts hot or cold, like it's fuel injected. It pulls 8-9 inches of vaccuum at 750 rpm.

Scott
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