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  #1  
Old Apr 10th, 13, 11:26 PM
zach69elcamino zach69elcamino is offline
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Zach Sons
 
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Default 550 horse 454?

I have a 1975 454 with a TH400, Edelbrock 2-0 performer intake, Holley 770 and I just picked up some 781's for $200, I was wondering if there is anyway I can get 550+ horsepower with the combo. I don't want to shoot nitrous or bore it out. I'm only 14, so I'm still learning, If there is any more specifics needed I can provide them. Budget is not a main focus but I'm trying not to go over $4500. What is the suggested lift/duration. It's going into a 69 El Camino. I'm looking to run High to mid 11's (if it's possible) All advice is GREATLY appreciated!
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  #2  
Old Apr 10th, 13, 11:37 PM
BlueSS454 BlueSS454 is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

There is a lot more to it than just the engine. It's also about how effectively and efficiently you put the power to the ground. A dud for a torque converter with highway gears won't do you any good with that goal in mind. Everything mechanical aspect of the car comes into play. Suspension, rear axle, trans set up, etc.
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  #3  
Old Apr 10th, 13, 11:46 PM
zach69elcamino zach69elcamino is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Thank you! really. and Nice charger
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  #4  
Old Apr 10th, 13, 11:52 PM
MEJ1990TM MEJ1990TM is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

I'm not an engine guru, but I don't believe you will hit that kind of power out of a stocker 454. You can build it to make good torque, but brute horsepower will take a healthy cam. To run a good size cam you are going to want more compression than that 8:1 long block would net. To get a true 500+ horsepower it's going to take some doing. If the 781's are done right with bigger valves, good valve job, and bowl blending they could more than likely get you there, but in the end you would need more compression and more cam.

I know 500 horsepower sounds like a nice round number, but the truth is even 400 horsepower is a lot of fun to drive. The baby 402 that's in the '70 will take you from sitting still to 100 miles per hour in short order. That's an estimated 400 horsepower engine, might even be less. To someone that isn't experienced with driving something like that even that little rat could get out of hand. I don't know you're driving history, so perhaps you've grown up with drag racing. At 14 we all wanted to go fast ,still do for that matter, but 500 real horsepower is no joke. The "500" horsepower engines you hear about at car shows all the time might be lucky to break 400, if that. I've heard guys say their engines were in that neighborhood, but when they talk about what they do at the track they MPH'd less than what the '70 runs.

The engine I'm building right now will be in the neighborhood of 550 horsepower. Could possibly be more. It's 13.2:1 compression (Far too high for pump gas), has a big(ish) solid lifter cam, and heads that don't really start coming online until 3,000+ RPM.

My advice would be to build the engine the way it is to get your feet wet. You'll be quite surprised as to how even a stock engine will run when it's tuned right.
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  #5  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 12:18 AM
zach69elcamino zach69elcamino is offline
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Zach Sons
 
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Were looking to run a .520 lift and .280 duration and have bigger valves put in the heads. any other suggestions? I think its a short deck (pretty sure) and I know its a 4 bolt main>
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  #6  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 1:40 AM
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Zach

The little .520" 280 Magnum will not get the job done. Nice friendly 400 horse street cam in a 454 however.

My combo puts out 500 horse based on its weight and track numbers, 70 Elky. Some refinement coming, performance numbers below as is the basic engine info. The carb was $100, Intake $100, used rotating assembly $300, solid lifters 2 used sets to get 8 good pair, I recollect the billet roller cam was $340, heads were $150 plus $600 in big valves, bowl work, etc. You get what you pay for in torque converters. I am pleased with the B&M 3000, lots of other good ones out there. Lightly beefed th350 should be replaced but it keeps surviving. Current 3.42 gears got me to 11.7s/mid 113s so do not discount 'street gears' entirely. Thoughtful suspension upgrades, drag radials, and patience to get all the things working well together.

here the pig is, near lane, ALL CHEVY DRAGS Bremerton 2011
left it in DRIVE, it short shifted at 4700rpm...needed to slow the vehicle down to run my pals in SPORTSMAN 12.0 and slower. Hit 12.02 here


Some advice
o 500 "REAL HORSE" is a lot of nuts in a big heavy El Camino. And it is at the end of street car status, more than this is race car territory

o street roller cam

o forget about gear drives and under hood bling so you can afford the roller cam

o good brakes ARE a requirement!
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George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 build continues #074 AL heads
$2000 low buck 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 23 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
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  #7  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 2:36 AM
zach69elcamino zach69elcamino is offline
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Zach Sons
 
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Thanks for the insight George! What trans are you running to use a .604 lift?
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  #8  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 4:19 AM
nashville beth nashville beth is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

The cheapest way to get horsepower is with a lot of cubic inches.

Buy a stroker kit, 4.25" crank, rods and pistons are about $1500. Since you need to rebuild it anyway, the cost is not that much.

I think you should shoot for 500 hp, which is easy with a 496. A 230* flat tappet cam will get you 500 hp.

A small cam will stress your budget a lot less. You won't have to spend big bucks on the valvetrain and it will get reasonable gas mileage.
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  #9  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 8:19 AM
1bad69 1bad69 is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

i ran a .629 lift Solid roller cam in a 468. was it 550 hp? doubt it, it was probably a bit less than that, but i will tell you you will have fun, and i had less than $3500 in the combo. i had the Keith Black pistons, stock rods with polished beams and arp rod bolts, stock cast crank, balanced bottom end assembly, 781 heads with 2.19/1.88" valves, Single plane Victor JR intake, 850HP Holley, Accel HEI, and this was in my 69 Camaro with built 700R4 and 3.90 gears....The throttle response was amazing. it would rev to the moon, idle like a pro stocker, and still get 10-12 mpg. (on highway) but make sure your block is good, check for align bore, make sure your lifter bores are good or you will wipe out a cam very quickly.
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  #10  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 9:15 AM
1978chad454 1978chad454 is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

im currently building my 454 in hopes to get 550-625hp from it. It started off a budget build then that went out the window when I seen how much the good parts are that will last with that kind of power. Will have over 3,500 in the topend and another 700 ignition. Im not sure if im going to go stroker or just put a set of pistons in it to bring the compression up to around 10:0.1

Heads: edelbrock bare $1200
valves: ferrea 6000 $320
Springs: lunati or comp $100-200
Work on heads: $300-400 valve job mild port work
Rockers: Ultra pro comp xd 1.7 rockers $400
Cam: Lunati 299/304 612 612 hyd roller $325
Lifters: lunati lifters 72431-16 $600
push rods: $??
Dizzy: Mallory max fire $500
wires: Mallory pro side winders $80
coil: Mallory coil $60

There is plenty of budget build ups out there that might get you close.

409hp 454
http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes...4-budget-build

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles..._collar_build/
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  #11  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 10:42 AM
Qwiktripz1320 Qwiktripz1320 is offline
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Josh
 
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Hey Zach. You remind me of a young version of myself. I was working on a 70 when I was 14 as well, working like a dog, saving up my money, trying to go fast. You will find a bunch of good info and recommendations from some knowledgable members here. I will throw in my $.02 from my experiences. IMO, the right combonation of parts is key. You can throw big money at it, but if everything doesn't jive, you will be dissapointed. For instance, I built a stout SB early on with a rowdy camshaft, single plane, big carb, etc, and didn't have the funds left over for a decent stall and or gears. I put the stock converter back in, left the 2.73's in, and it was a slug. Remember, these cars are VERY heavy, and require a bunch of torque to get moving. As far as your BB build, here's what I would would do. They are getting hard to find, but if you can locate some early closed or semi-open chamber oval port heads(063 castings for instance), you can get a bump in compression. Perhaps sell your 781's or look for a trade. Forget about the single pattern 280 Comp, that is old news. If the budget allows, a hyd roller will be money well spent, but I know of many flat tappets that are still running strong. All of the BB heads have a poor exhaust port that can be "crutched" with some extra duration on that side, there are many threads on the subject. With a combo like this, the bigger valves won't help as much as you think. If the heads need to be completely rebuilt, you might as well do it at that time, but then the chambers need to be opened up to unshroud the bigger valves. Another option is the Edelbrock Hi-Compression heads if the budget is there, you could by them complete and bolt them on. The Performer 2-0 works good, and the Holley should be fine as well. As long as the TH400 is in good working order, it will hold up, just spend some money on the converter. Trust me, it will help get that barge out of the hole. I wouldn't get caught up in HP numbers or E.T.'s, just go for a good thought out combo that you can have fun with and whittle away at it as you go. Oh yeah, I'll end with this. Nitrous Oxide is a beautiful thing, don't be afraid of it. When used correctly and in moderation, it can make up for cubic inches. Good luck with it!
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  #12  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 12:44 PM
KJMac KJMac is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

I remember talking to a guy while racing at the Woodburn OR dragstrip about 12 years ago. He had a
'70 Chevelle SS 396 he bought without engine so he built a budget 454 he had from parts he had collected.
It had;
454 .030 cast flat tops
"290" casting heads with 2.08-1.72 valves and 3 angle valve job.
280 comp cam
Performer RPM with jetted 3310
TH400 2500 Hughes
3.55 posi and slicks
Open Hooker comp Headers 2"/3 1/2"

11.96@112ish
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  #13  
Old Apr 11th, 13, 1:30 PM
mfret1970 mfret1970 is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

The killer for your current group of parts is the stock shortblock with 781 heads. 781's are a great head but the chambers are huge. Stock 454 truck motors usually have flat tops, that combo of 781's and flat tops will barely give you 8:1. As was suggested above, look for some early closed chamber heads from a 396 or 427 to help bump up compression. Or, put a set of domed pistons in your block and run the 781's.


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  #14  
Old Apr 12th, 13, 12:45 AM
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

Mike,

Sounds like my Super Budget 454; stock shortblock, closed chamber heads, 8.8:1 CR.
With small perf cam, around 410 horse by my track numbers. Small tube headers, street gears...2400 then 3000 stall, drag radials... 12.7s at 104.5 mph or there about. Full weight, 4000# with driver and fuel. More to the combo but I sold the engine, the buyer really enjoys the engine in his boat
__________________
George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 build continues #074 AL heads
$2000 low buck 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 23 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
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  #15  
Old Apr 12th, 13, 9:54 AM
zach69elcamino zach69elcamino is offline
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Zach Sons
 
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Default Re: 550 horse 454?

I've decided to get roller rockers and lifters with about a .530 to 540 lift and .270 duration cam and im posotive i have a 780 holly and 2.25 inch diameter headers. What kind of power should Iexpect with this combo, 400-450? or am I going to high/low with that number?
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