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  #16  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 8:27 AM
69-CHVL 69-CHVL is offline
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Vinny Vince
 
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

The Scat 9000 series cast crank is actually a nice piece, and I would consider one if building another motor. Certain member here made years of low 10 sec passes with it until it finally broke. That's like 50yrs worth of us street driving.

Just wanted to throw that out there!
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  #17  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 8:49 AM
CNC BLOCKS N/E CNC BLOCKS N/E is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

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Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
The Scat 9000 series cast crank is actually a nice piece, and I would consider one if building another motor. Certain member here made years of low 10 sec passes with it until it finally broke. That's like 50yrs worth of us street driving.

Just wanted to throw that out there!
Was he using a Dart block ???
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  #18  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 10:11 AM
69-CHVL 69-CHVL is offline
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Vinny Vince
 
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS N/E View Post
Was he using a Dart block ???
Iron OE block - pretty certain
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  #19  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 6:26 PM
douglee25 douglee25 is online now
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

I looked over the build list for some of Skip's engines. I have to say that the pieces don't look that bad. Are there some components that could be better? Sure, but everything factors down to a budget, compromise, and end result. I see no reason why their 383 stroker motor would not be a reliable 400+hp combo. It looks like your typical vendor bashing due to some off shore parts used throughout his builds. The ironic thing is many 'American Made' companies now use off shore parts or assemblies in their product line. They still claim 'American Made' because it's still assembled in the US. Because WE the customer demand lower pricing, companies have no choice but to meet our demands otherwise they lose revenue and market share.

Doug
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  #20  
Old Nov 26th, 12, 11:52 PM
CNC BLOCKS N/E CNC BLOCKS N/E is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

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Originally Posted by douglee25 View Post
I looked over the build list for some of Skip's engines. I have to say that the pieces don't look that bad. Are there some components that could be better? Sure, but everything factors down to a budget, compromise, and end result. I see no reason why their 383 stroker motor would not be a reliable 400+hp combo. It looks like your typical vendor bashing due to some off shore parts used throughout his builds. The ironic thing is many 'American Made' companies now use off shore parts or assemblies in their product line. They still claim 'American Made' because it's still assembled in the US. Because WE the customer demand lower pricing, companies have no choice but to meet our demands otherwise they lose revenue and market share.

Doug
So you would use a 2500.00 Dart Big-M block and put a 150.00 chinese crank in it HMMMMMM interesting.
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  #21  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 12:32 AM
MackTruck49 MackTruck49 is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

no ads on the tech forums plz

Last edited by Tom Mobley; Nov 29th, 12 at 5:14 PM.
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  #22  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 4:04 AM
douglee25 douglee25 is online now
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS N/E View Post
So you would use a 2500.00 Dart Big-M block and put a 150.00 chinese crank in it HMMMMMM interesting.
I'm not sure why you inferred what I'd personally do on my engine build?

However, I have a pretty good understanding of how the free market works and why many companies use offshore components to be more competitive in the marketplace. Those that don't offer an off shore component line or use off shore assemblies are only catering to a small portion of their potential customer base and are losing out on profit. There is a customer for everything. With that said, the research that I've done has led me to believe that the Scat cranks are a decent piece. However, I have no personal experience with them. My guess is many people don't have experience with the Scat pieces either, but since everyone is a Google expert these days, they feel otherwise.

Doug
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  #23  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 12:04 PM
Notalent Notalent is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by douglee25 View Post
I looked over the build list for some of Skip's engines. I have to say that the pieces don't look that bad. Are there some components that could be better? Sure, but everything factors down to a budget, compromise, and end result. I see no reason why their 383 stroker motor would not be a reliable 400+hp combo. It looks like your typical vendor bashing due to some off shore parts used throughout his builds. The ironic thing is many 'American Made' companies now use off shore parts or assemblies in their product line. They still claim 'American Made' because it's still assembled in the US. Because WE the customer demand lower pricing, companies have no choice but to meet our demands otherwise they lose revenue and market share.

Doug
Vendor bashing for a reason. Although some of it is because they stole american product and copied it, itís also because we know the problems that come from these parts that most people donít or wouldnít know what to look for. It may look like a good deal and some people may have done ok with them, but I bet you a lot more havenít, itís like the lottery, whoís lucky?

Have you had the chance to test a lot of these offshore parts? From heads, to intakes, rocker arms, distributors etc...???? I will tell you most of us have, we have run the gauntlet of parts, trying them on different applications/power levels etc. We get sent parts from every manufacture to test and I would say a good 85% of them we would never trust on a engine we sell for a reason.

In regards to the US Companies having parts made offshore you have to break this down..and unless you have used these parts/companies you may not know what we do. The biggest thing to look for is QUALTIY CONTROL, a perfect example would be Scat vs. Eagle. Both use offshore companies, but Scat finishes all the product here including the balancing in the US, Eagle has it all done offshore....a very noticeable difference in defective products/final finishes.

We have seen many of the parts Skip uses in his engines and could use them if we wanted to, but thats just to big of a reliablity. He offers a warranty (not sure how good) for these parts because he is one of the largest offshore retailers. If something goes wrong its CHEAP to replace.
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  #24  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 1:04 PM
douglee25 douglee25 is online now
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

Brandon - All good points.

I just don't understand the bashing towards Skip?

If he uses cheap(er) components to meet a certain budget or target a specific customer, the more power to him. Skip also gives the customer options to upgrade to forged cranks, better rockers, heads, etc. It seems like he can target a larger customer base this way, no? Why do people bash him because he has what appears (on the surface anyway) a solid business model? He can build cheaper engines and he can build engines just like ATK. Concerning the warranty thing, I don't see many companies differing. There are 100 stipulations in the warranty fine print - ie 'we don't cover labor to remove/install, we don't cover the diagnosing cost, we don't cover shipping, we don't cover your engine unless we install it or someone in our certified network, we don't XXXXX' - and the list goes on. When it comes down to it, most companies will only cover the parts - period. Most people who purchase race or hotrod style component are aware of this. It's an 'assumed risk' type purchase/sport. Warranties in this game are almost a joke to me. Does that mean that complete engines are never warrantied? No, but it could take you 6 months to fight it out all the while your car is down and missing your cruise season.

Doug
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  #25  
Old Nov 27th, 12, 6:16 PM
Busted Knuckles Busted Knuckles is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

When you build an engine with a cast crank and set of cheap off-shore knock-off castings and say that ""I have reviewed other similar 496/505 engines on the market, and most of the parts used are substandard in my opinion", plan on getting some bashing.
What head could ProComp be superior to?
Other than an Eagle or ProComp cast crank, how much cheaper could you get?
He's planning on folks being impressed by the use of a good aftermarket block. It takes more than a good foundation to build a strong, reliable engine.
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  #26  
Old Nov 28th, 12, 12:54 AM
MackTruck49 MackTruck49 is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

My uncle has a crank brand new from EAGLE sitting on his counter at his shop that has one of the journals not timed properly/twisted to far. He is always telling me the quality is terrible from that company. Ive been learning everything from him. I am spending alot of money on my 462 at his shop, and I always see complete engines in all the magazines and catalogs advertised with more horse power/more cu. in/cheaper price then what im paying my own uncle for...and im doing all the work! (besides machine work) But he is taking the time to actually show me the poor quality of most of the brands in these crate engines. He does it all day, re-does alot of peoples work, and ive learned that in this type of hobby you get what you pay for.
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  #27  
Old Nov 28th, 12, 9:20 AM
Cameano Cameano is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

You guys must all have real deep pockets.
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  #28  
Old Nov 29th, 12, 1:42 AM
MackTruck49 MackTruck49 is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

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Originally Posted by Cameano View Post
You guys must all have real deep pockets.

Haha no just learning patience because im not purchasing cheap parts so i have to wait and save till i have enough $$$$$ for good stuff. I need 1 more edelbrock head, full gasket kit, nicer timing chain cover, cam + lifters + push rods and an electric water pump and its done! haha
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  #29  
Old Nov 29th, 12, 7:16 AM
Busted Knuckles Busted Knuckles is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

Deep pockets belong to those who can afford to build junk the first time, then re-spend the money on good parts after they're let down by their first purchase.
I have to build my stuff one time, can't afford do-overs.
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  #30  
Old Nov 29th, 12, 9:54 AM
Jim Mac Jim Mac is offline
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Default Re: Skip White Stage 6 505 Crate Engine

you get this same argument in the gun world too. you look up century arms and usually find drunken monkeys associated with the name. Truthfully most AK's thats around are the cheap wasr10's, I bet 99% of them will go bang when you pull the trigger, but these rifles got out with canted front sights, ill fitting furniture etc. But these were selling for less than $400 usually shot well. Some had issues and those that did you hear over and over how bad the wasr ak's are. Ammo? You get shooters that shoots surplus ammo. Look up 8mm surplus ammo, theres a bunch imported right now thats from iran during the shaw era. guys on the gun boards wont buy it just because its from iran, they never tested it, most folks find it does what its suppose to do. but because of the country of origin folks wont buy it.
Now will this motor run? 99% of them probably fire up and run fine after break in. Does it make every horsepower that 500 cubes can deliver? I bet not. But it probably runs great, and makes the car alot of fun to drive.
You get the same debate on paint jobs. Some guys thinks a 1200 dollar maaco paint job is fine, others think 1200 bucks is just a down payment on the supplies. In the end its what makes you happy.
Personally I'd love to put a NICE big block in my car, but the little that I drive it that cheap (under$500) old reconditioned truck 454 (rings, bearings,cam)is really all my car needs. jim
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