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Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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  #1  
Old Nov 14th, 11, 10:19 PM
novadude novadude is offline
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Default Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

I already think I know the answer, but I need a reality check.

Just got done converting my '65 Nova 327 from a PG to a Muncie 4-speed. I used a Hays Billet Flywheel (12-3/4"), and a Hays Street clutch. I've driven it < 100 miles. Transmission and clutch are working great, but I have a major problem.

I get a real noticeable vibration above 2000 rpm, and it gets really bad at 2500 rpm - enough to blur the rear view mirror and rattle the dash. It is not as noticable above 3000 rpm, but still there (just a higher frequency). I never had this problem with the PG. I replaced u-joints while it was apart. I can go ~50mph where the vibration is the worst. If push the clutch in to let the engine idle and the car coast at that speed, it is smooth as glass. Same is true at 70 mph. I can duplicate the vibes running the engine at those speeds in the garage.

At this point, I am pretty convinced that it can only be flywheel and/or pressure plate imbalance. Not real happy about this, as I used "quality" parts ($$) that were brand new - not Autozone China junk. Before I pull it apart, I wanted to see if anyone else has any other suggestions.

If it wasn't for this issue, I'd be really happy with the whole project. Clutch engagement is very smooth, and trans shifts perfect, whether under load or just cruising around.

So am I pulling the pressure plate and flywheel and visiting a machine shop for balancing, or does someone have other ideas? Thanks!
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  #2  
Old Nov 14th, 11, 10:41 PM
MEJ1990TM MEJ1990TM is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Have you brought it up to 2500 RPM with the clutch engaged and trans in neutral?
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  #3  
Old Nov 14th, 11, 11:58 PM
novadude novadude is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
Have you brought it up to 2500 RPM with the clutch engaged and trans in neutral?
Yup. Same vibes. Clutch in or out, in every gear. It is definitely RPM dependent. Seems worse on the road for some reason, but it could be my imagination.
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Old Nov 15th, 11, 1:46 AM
MEJ1990TM MEJ1990TM is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

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Originally Posted by novadude View Post
Yup. Same vibes. Clutch in or out, in every gear. It is definitely RPM dependent. Seems worse on the road for some reason, but it could be my imagination.
Certainly sounds like something is off kilter in the rotating assembly.
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  #5  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 8:00 AM
dreis454 dreis454 is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Are you sure that you didn't get a flywheel for a 400sb?
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  #6  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 8:16 AM
novadude novadude is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

I'm positive it is not a 400 flywheel. Hays 10-330.
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  #7  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 8:37 AM
WurlitzBurg WurlitzBurg is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

NovaDude,
I had exactly the same problem. Severe vibes clutch in/out, moving or still. All based on engine speed. I pulled the trans and ran the engine with a jack uner the pan just in case. No vibration. I soon discovered the builder used the wrong GM bellhousing. It was for a truck and the locating hole for the trans case was too large. I bought a new bell, replaced the pilot bushing, dial indicated the bell hole to make sure it was centered and put it back together. End of problem. If you do not see anything wrong, I suggest you check center of bellhousing location. Use the hydraulic (grease) method of pulling the pilot bushing if you change it.
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  #8  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 9:38 AM
novadude novadude is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

I am using a new non-magnetic bronze pilot bushing, and a '309' bellhousing specific to '64-67 Novas. The bearing retainer is a close fit in the bellhousing pilot hole. Thanks for the suggestion, but this probably isn't my issue.

I did check bellhousing pilot run-out, and it was 0.012" TIR (0.006" offset). This is just barely outside the acceptable 0.005" limit, so I feel pretty sure this isn't casusing my vibration. I'm sure GM sent cars off of the assembly line with far worse alignment. In 4th gear with the clutch in, the input shaft is turning at driveshaft speed, and I get no vibes in this situation at any speed, so I don't think misalignment is putting any excess load on the pilot bushing / front bearing.

Tom... beautiful '69... love the red interior!
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  #9  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 9:51 AM
bracketchev1221 bracketchev1221 is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

I would think its in the flywheel or the clutch. I put mine in and didn't check the bellhousing.
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  #10  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 11:16 AM
andrewb70 andrewb70 is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

If the vibration is present while the car is stationary, then it is in the rotating assembly. As you mentioned in your first post, I suspect the flywheel/pressure plate combo.

Andrew
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  #11  
Old Nov 15th, 11, 2:15 PM
WurlitzBurg WurlitzBurg is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Thanks, NovaDude. I'm glad you checked TIR on that bellhousing.
I had never done that before and hope I don't have to again.
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  #12  
Old Nov 18th, 11, 1:52 AM
5speeds 5speeds is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Sometimes people forget the basics as to how things work.

With the transmission in neutral, car at idle. Press down on the clutch pedal.

Put the transmission IN GEAR ( any gear )

Rev it up. If you have a vibration still, the transmission IS NOT even turning.

Typically engine flywheel , harmonic issues happen at the 2000 - 2500 rpm range. Try and have someone rev the engine up while you look at the engine. See if your belts look like the vibrate. I've seen water pumps as well as alternators cause vibrations.. Other issues I have seen are the clutch covers not being perfectly aligned with the flywheel.
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  #13  
Old Nov 18th, 11, 7:35 AM
novadude novadude is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5speeds View Post
Sometimes people forget the basics as to how things work.

With the transmission in neutral, car at idle. Press down on the clutch pedal.

Put the transmission IN GEAR ( any gear )

Rev it up. If you have a vibration still, the transmission IS NOT even turning.

Typically engine flywheel , harmonic issues happen at the 2000 - 2500 rpm range. Try and have someone rev the engine up while you look at the engine. See if your belts look like the vibrate. I've seen water pumps as well as alternators cause vibrations.. Other issues I have seen are the clutch covers not being perfectly aligned with the flywheel.
Thanks, Paul. It vibrates in gear with the clutch in and the car stopped. I guess it doesn't hurt to look at the front of the engine, but it didn't do this 3 months ago when I was driving it with the Powerglide. The only changes were the transmission, and replacing the flexplate / converter with a flywheel / clutch.

Seems like this keeps pointing to a bad balance from Hays, or maybe the clutch cover issue you mentioned. How would the clutch cover not be aligned? I used the special shoulder bolts that Hays provided, not regular fasteners. It basically ended up in the only place I could install it.

It's also interesting to me that you mention the 2000-2500 range, because that it where the vibration can be felt the most.
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  #14  
Old Nov 18th, 11, 12:48 PM
WurlitzBurg WurlitzBurg is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
My vibration got really bad at 2500 and up. It was caused by misalignment between trans input shaft and pilot bushing/crank axis.
From what you have checked, I don't think this is your problem but it could be good info for someone.
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  #15  
Old Nov 18th, 11, 6:40 PM
nitrofox nitrofox is offline
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Default Re: Need help with a vibration issue (Muncie)

Alignment dowel still in crank?

Jeff
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