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Pro Touring Todays performance with classic style

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  #1  
Old Oct 16th, 11, 5:23 AM
Hot66ss Hot66ss is offline
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Default Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Hey Guys,

Wondering if going through the trouble of boxing the a Chevelle frame and putting in "K" supports have a real world benefit. I know it can't be a bad thing but am I going to see any difference in the handling dept, will it give the car a harsh ride? I am trying to decided if i should do it to the frame on my 67 since I have it apart right now, if i do it I will have to re-powder coat the frame. Any before and afters out there with no other mods as a variable?

Thanks,

Tom
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  #2  
Old Oct 16th, 11, 8:06 AM
Uppster Uppster is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

What are you planning to do, and why would you want to would be my questions first. The old Chevelles have a pretty decent frame now, and when the Big Boys do a build they never seem to do anything to the frame. I have Hotchkiss suspension under mine now, and can put the jack under the car infront of the rear tire and lift the whole side of the car up. But I like you will be interested to hear from other members.
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  #3  
Old Oct 16th, 11, 8:18 AM
ProVintageCutlass ProVintageCutlass is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

My frame was twisted badly from being transported and skull dragged from the container, so having it straightend was the first thing needed to be done.
The guy doing the mods showed me how easy the frame still could twist after boxing the side rails, so after spending good money on suspension gear it seemed a waste not to go that little bit further and not give it all a strong mounting point to get the most out of what I'd bought.

Looking forward to it's first track day
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  #4  
Old Oct 17th, 11, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

In-general anything you can do to keep the suspension pick-up points where they belong in relation to each other is a plus. That's the concept behind strut tower bracing, subframe connectors, etc. It's pretty difficult to quantify just how much help boxing and stiffening provides. My recommendation would be to try it (if you're willing to re-powder coat) or go with some bolt-in products.

We offer a connector to reinforce upper and lower rear pick-up points as an example:

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=285

Customer feedback indicates their rear suspension "just feels better". We can't place a number on it per se, we just know it works!
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  #5  
Old Oct 17th, 11, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Hey Wayne. That looks like a great start to your project. I really like the gusset action. Let us know how it performs!
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  #6  
Old Oct 17th, 11, 4:45 PM
Hot66ss Hot66ss is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

I was thinking of doing something more along the lines of this http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...510/frame1.jpg
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68 Vette, Documented 427/435hp Tri Power, 4 speed- Sold
70 SS LS6/M22 Documented, black/white stripes- Sold
71 Elco SS 396/th400/12 bolt posi
01 Mustang Saleen, Convert. Stroked & Blown. 490RWHP/522RWTQ
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  #7  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 12:11 AM
Paul-ish Paul-ish is online now
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

That's a kit form HPI CUSTOMS in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
About $600 if I remember right. Comes with everything in that pick including the precut boxing sections.
http://www.hpicustoms.com/index.html

Or you could just come up with your own...Plenty of threads in this forum of people's home designs.
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  #8  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 1:26 AM
Hot66ss Hot66ss is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-ish View Post
That's a kit form HPI CUSTOMS in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
About $600 if I remember right. Comes with everything in that pick including the precut boxing sections.
http://www.hpicustoms.com/index.html

Or you could just come up with your own...Plenty of threads in this forum of people's home designs.
I was hoping to hear some good before an after results with just these types of reinforcements as a change. every car reacts different to less flex and I am (i think most are) are so used to these old cars that twist around on every bump I am afraid what I am creating... a modern performance car with a 67 chevelle body! My old 300 srt8 would lift a wheel off the ground going into the driveway at my shop at an angle, I will be damned if I have ever seen an old muscle car do that pulling in.

I thought about going that HPI route, figured with the time it would take to fab it up and the materials I would be better off.

So I called HPI today to get the details and I was disappointed to find out that these kits are made with NON DOM tubing the frame mount reinforcements raise the body of the car up 1/8 inch and the trans cross member is 1/8 inch higher then stock as well. Everything is MIG welded.

The standard kit now runs $650 +$150 shipping ($800) and you can custom order the trans cross member at stock height and request DOM tubing & Tig welding but now you are starting to get into some serious money, but I don't think I would want it any other way.

I don't want anyone to take this as a bash on HPI, these guys sound top notch and you can get it anyway you want (materials or otherwise) and I think they are a great option if you are willing to spend the bucks!
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67 Velle- AFR headed 509/4L80 Pro-Touring.
68 Vette, Documented 427/435hp Tri Power, 4 speed- Sold
70 SS LS6/M22 Documented, black/white stripes- Sold
71 Elco SS 396/th400/12 bolt posi
01 Mustang Saleen, Convert. Stroked & Blown. 490RWHP/522RWTQ
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  #9  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 7:52 AM
ProVintageCutlass ProVintageCutlass is offline
Wayne
 
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Thanks Ramey, I'm really stoked you like it, I'll be getting some of your HD front swaybar mounts soon.

The HPI Customs kit is worth the money and I would of went that way if it wasn't for the cost and time involved in shipping it here.

My frame work set me back $1500 all up, I was quoted between $3000-$4500 by the top custom shops over here as it was such a rare oddball chassis (why did I buy an Olds), that isn't the same as a Chevelle as one guy told me. The guy that did all the fabrication and welding worked at Bunnings Hardware, the downturn over here has all the top tradesmen working there. He was great and even borrowed a laser level to check it before I got it back.

My body needs to be lifted 1/8'-1/4" as I made sure the drive line angle was near perfect before the gearbox crossmember mounts were welded in.
Because I wanted to run the Olds crossmember and have a stock look it hits the floor on either side.

I was even surprised at how much the frame weighs even with all the extra steel in it.
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  #10  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 7:58 AM
BlownYenko BlownYenko is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMI Tech View Post
It's pretty difficult to quantify just how much help boxing and stiffening provides.
....
Customer feedback indicates their rear suspension "just feels better". We can't place a number on it per se, we just know it works!
Anyone that sells any product that adds strength can quite easily and inexpensively quantify the numbers by conducting beaming and torsional tests. I'd find this useful if I was wanting to verify that something added chassis strength, rather than just "looking" strong.
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  #11  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 9:05 AM
UMI Tech UMI Tech is online now
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Hey Craig. I totally agree with your request for quantification of numbers as pertaining to chassis rigidity. We're working on gathering and communicating that type of data.

By the way, your screen name is fantastic. I remember reading old Hot Rod magazines my dad had stored away when the Yenko Camaro's were new. They were awesome machines.

ramey
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  #12  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 9:17 AM
BlownYenko BlownYenko is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Hi Ramey. Sounds great! I understand that it's a bit of work when your catalog covers so many different makes and models, but I'm a sucker for data when I'm making a purchase.

My screen name (and my car) is a bit of a misnomer, as it relates to a 68 Chevelle. Yenko sold 99 Chevelles in 1969, making them even rarer than the famous 69 Yenko Camaro.

So, mine's just a fake with some cheapo Yenko stripes, and it's not even the right model year
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  #13  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 9:55 AM
JodysTransmissions JodysTransmissions is online now
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

Anyone see the new Hot Rod mag with the old school '55 Chevy on the cover? There is an advertisement for a kit to box stock Chevelle frames. Also, they will soon be releasing a mini tub kit for the '64-'67 Chevelle.

Here is the link: http://abcperformance.net/
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  #14  
Old Oct 18th, 11, 10:49 AM
austindub austindub is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

I'm sure that bracing and boxing the frame will help a bit, but if you are really looking to increase torsional rigidity you will have to work on the y-axis as well, AKA, a roll cage that ties into the frame.
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  #15  
Old Oct 20th, 11, 8:45 PM
vrooom3440 vrooom3440 is offline
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Default Re: Real world benifits of frame boxing and stiffening

You really have to look at this from a structural perspective...

Yes the frames to twist very easily by themselves. Simply boxing the open frame channels will make a noteable difference in the frame rigidity.

Adding more tubes down the middle will make a lot less difference.

However you should not look at the frame by itself when evaluating stiffness as it is only one part of the overall structure. You must also consider the affect of the body as it is a major structural member here.

First stage stiffening would be to move to solid body mounts, albeit at the expense of a LOT more noise and vibration transfer. Then if you really want to stiffen things up plan on a full cage with extensions to tie into the nose and tail. You can eliminate virtually all flex with a proper triangulated structure.
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