Mild 350 vs mild 454? - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 4:25 PM
crankitup crankitup is offline
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Default Mild 350 vs mild 454?

If we were to compare 2 similar chevelles, one with a 350 sbc and the other with a 454 bbc. Both engines would have a mild performance build, at a modest expense, like 750 to 850 dp carbs, aluminum double plain intakes, Iron heads, like vortec on the sbs and oval ports on the bbc, headers, moderate performance cams, around 9 1/2 to 1 compression, auto trannys, similar rear gears. How much better would the 454 perform compared to the 350?
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  #2  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 4:38 PM
dreis454 dreis454 is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

454 would wipe up the floor with the 350.....even IF the HP was close(which it won't be) the 350 could never touch the 454's torque....
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  #3  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 5:20 PM
73nova 73nova is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Well it all depends on whos getting traction and who isn't so lets say they both have 500hp and the small block makes 400ft.lbs and big block makes 450-525ft.lbs now take in the fact that the big block weighs about 100lbs more on the front meaning harder to get the hit to the back tires. so If they both dead hook and perform should be a close race. All depends on what you want them to do.
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  #4  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 5:25 PM
GRUMPYVETTE GRUMPYVETTE is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

both engines if properly tuned, on a mild build, should provide about 1 hp and 1 foot lb of torque PER CUBIC INCH OF DISPLACEMENT
while its true the big block probably will weight about 120 lbs more the difference in power far overcomes the difference in weight

play with this calculator and assume the sbc chevelle weights 120 lbs less than the big block version, but weights a realistic 3700 lbs, and makes 350 fly wheel hp vs the heavier cars 454 flywheel hp and 3820 lbs
now assume both cars loose 20% in drive train losses
http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3700 pounds and HP of 280 is 13.77 seconds and MPH of 97.29 MPH.

Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3820 pounds and HP of 363 is 12.76 seconds and MPH of 104.96 MPH.

the calculations may not reflect reality exactly but , they do show the realistic fact that the larger displacement should produce a slightly faster car.
now obviously your going to have someone point out that the big block tends to cost a bit more to build, but its also a good deal harder to make the same power with the lower displacement, given your low budget of only about $700 to -lets say $1000 or so,or so, a good used performance intake, decent flat tappet cam, maybe headers are about all your going to do to either engine
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  #5  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 6:01 PM
kirkwoodken kirkwoodken is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

HP be damned, you KNOW the 454 will make 100 Ft. Lbs. more torque, all parts being equal.
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  #6  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 6:25 PM
putput putput is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

No replacement for displacement. Cubic inches will win every time on similair builds. Even darn near stock the cubes will produce much more torque to easily overcome the weight differance.
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  #7  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 7:03 PM
73nova 73nova is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Z28: 350 V8 360 bhp @ 6000 rpm, 380 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm.
SS396: 402 V8 375 bhp @ 5600 rpm, 415 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm.

I know this isnt what you are looking for, for a comparison but hes saying similar builds. But this is for a camaro ss back in 70 52 cubes more and only 35 more lb-ft and 15hp so that equates to the 100+lbs of weight you are getting right? I am just saying if everything is equal on the road with stock size tires the big block will not hook up as easily as the small block. But what do I know I never had a big block or small block in my nova haha!
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  #8  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 7:46 PM
Mikeys69 Mikeys69 is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Last Sunday at our Drag Wars event. A local fellow was there with his 75 Malibu running a 30 over 454, 410 gears, 2200 stall, 28 inch tires, 650 Vac Holley. I forget the cam used. Just under 550 lift, remember that. Running 13.4's. Another BBC TRUD...lol
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  #9  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 8:31 PM
mr 4 speed mr 4 speed is offline
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Talking Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73nova View Post
Well it all depends on whos getting traction and who isn't so lets say they both have 500hp and the small block makes 400ft.lbs and big block makes 450-525ft.lbs now take in the fact that the big block weighs about 100lbs more on the front meaning harder to get the hit to the back tires. so If they both dead hook and perform should be a close race. All depends on what you want them to do.
harder to get "the hit" to the back tires because of the big block weighing 100 lbs. more? can you explain this by actual experience? I'd really like to understand this....if the big block makes 150 more ft/lbs. of torque than the small block and the both have the same stall convertor,the big block car will flash the convertor to a higher rpm just because of the torque difference.If both cars have lets say,3.42 gears,drag radials and a typical SSM/lift bar style suspension the big block car will 60 ft. harder..without a doubt.
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  #10  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 8:41 PM
73nova 73nova is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

I never got good weight transfer with the 454 in my nova with iron heads. It wouldnt plant as great as the 350. 350 would raise the front 3-4 inches under hard acceleration from a dead stop with minimal tire spin the 454 would maybe raise a 1-2 inches and spin the tires down the road... But what do I know its not my car or anything. and if the front isn't raising its not really putting the weight to the rear end or do you have a car that weight transfers with the front staying down meaning doesn't move at all?

Im not saying im a pro or I am a know it all. But I do know my car pulled harder with a 350 then it did with the 454 either with 3.08s or 3.73s. But hey thats why I am building a 496 aluminum headed solid roller engine.
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  #11  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 8:44 PM
mr 4 speed mr 4 speed is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

what about 60 ft. Tim? any time slip data to prove your point? Or is this just having fun with a street car (not trying to be sarcastic here)
if your 350 pulled harder than your 454 it must not have been dialed in right

here is a 454 getting some nice "front end raise"..and this was a stock 8 to 1 motor with just cam,headers,intake and 3.07 gears:
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  #12  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 9:00 PM
73nova 73nova is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

I use my car on the street. So thats why I said I dont know it all. And my car had 049 milled to 114 cc chambers flat top pistons lunati cam dont remember exact cam specs but was in the neighbor hood of .520ish lift intake and exhaust headers 2.5in exhaust 750 holley and performer rpm and it ran fine but he did not state he was drag racing I was giving him street performance. And that car was on a track with minimal tire spin I run a 275/60R15 radial and the 454 just ate the tires up. So what one is quicker one that is spinning the tires down the road or one that is taking off from a dead stop minimal slip? Had a locker so both tires were spinning. He asked for advice and I was giving it to him. Sorry if you didn't like my info.
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  #13  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 9:05 PM
Dads 72 Dads 72 is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankitup View Post
If we were to compare 2 similar chevelles, one with a 350 sbc and the other with a 454 bbc. Both engines would have a mild performance build, at a modest expense, like 750 to 850 dp carbs, aluminum double plain intakes, Iron heads, like vortec on the sbs and oval ports on the bbc, headers, moderate performance cams, around 9 1/2 to 1 compression, auto trannys, similar rear gears. How much better would the 454 perform compared to the 350?
Being that all is the same BBC will bet the SBC, it's just way to easy to get HP/TQ out of the BB. I hate to say that because I'm a SB guy but it is true.
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Old Aug 27th, 11, 9:10 PM
Munch69ProTour Munch69ProTour is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Old crusty saying but..

"No replacement for displacement"
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  #15  
Old Aug 27th, 11, 9:24 PM
cuisinartvette cuisinartvette is offline
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Default Re: Mild 350 vs mild 454?

Are you kidding the BBC will kill it.

Spinning tires? Maybe cause its making power!
Get a stickier tire.

Love to have me a BBC nothing like that huge torque everywhere
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