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  #1  
Old Aug 23rd, 11, 4:48 PM
gra4er gra4er is offline
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Default Blown 454 with B&M 174

Title states it. I have the blower, intake and ideas, but I would like your input. It's going in a 68 Chevelle SS with 3.73 out back and a stock TH400 with a TCI Breakaway torque converter w/ about a 2000 stall.

Things I've decided so far: NEW GM 454 block, HI PERF iron heads, Holley 850 dp, and I'm leaning towards a Lunati rotating assembly with H-beam rods and around a 9.0:1 compression ratio.

I'm looking to make a reliable 750HP and don't know what to expect for torque numbers(hopefully more than 750 or close). Will be running at 10 psi.

I've heard of boxes(forget the name) that will eliminate spark knock from crappy gas, but that's all I know of them. Any info would help. Also any other obscure information would be helpful.

I don't plan on running an intercooler.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
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  #2  
Old Aug 23rd, 11, 6:11 PM
GRN69CHV GRN69CHV is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Clarification? You already have the blower, got that. Heads? Do you have them or you will be buying a set of heads?

JMHO, If I were intent on buying a new block and a new rotating assembly, I would not even bother building a 454. For virtually the same $$$, get a new GMPP Sportsman block, rotating assembly of your choice and build a 540". Decent heads and matching cam nets you 700 hp NA on 92 pump gas with no trick ignition,etc required. No comment on using the 174 on a 540", guess you could use it, just spin it higher? Or, build the motor with higher static compression?

PS - is there anything wrong with the 427.030? Seems that exsting motor would be a good candidate for some mods to handle the small blower.
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  #3  
Old Aug 23rd, 11, 7:08 PM
camaroman7d camaroman7d is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

That blower is pretty small for a BBC, it will work and can make big torque and power down low. You just have to build the combination around that (Low RPM), keep that in mind and you'll be ok. You will also need a bigger carb. That blower is not going to make 10psi on a BBC and run pump gas. Don't get caught up in the boost numbers with a roots blower and pump gas, it's more about moving air than it is compressing it. If you already have the blower and want to use what you have, then go for it, but you have to keep in mind (understand) how they make power. You will have a ton of lowend torque with that blower, it just won't be able to feed that big of an engine in the upper RPM range (meaning HP will drop off earlier than it would with a bigger blower)

If you want all out HP then you need a bigger blower. For your 700HP+ goal you maye want to look at a bigger blower that would also be a better match for the 3.73 gears and th400

The "box" you are thinking about is called a boost retard, it retards the timing as boost increases. MSD makes one as well as Crane, I run the Crane unit along with Crane ignition.
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  #4  
Old Aug 23rd, 11, 10:14 PM
chrispicide35 chrispicide35 is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Why such a weeenie converter?
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  #5  
Old Aug 24th, 11, 9:15 AM
gra4er gra4er is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

GRN69CHV - 427 is a 2 bolt main and have the heads already

I want a sleeper, that's why a small blower. I dont want a huge cowl hood either, I'm thinking a 2" cowl hood would work with this setup.

I don't understand why a 454 w/ around 600 horse would have a problem achieving 750 HP w/ a blower?

Small converter? Size wise or stall wise? I went with that one because my car currently runs and I got this converter from a buddy(bought it new and sat on shelf) and it had the antiballooning plate for nitrous. I figured this would be good for a blower motor for all of the low end torque and my heavy foot.
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  #6  
Old Aug 24th, 11, 10:15 AM
brngrhd brngrhd is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by gra4er View Post
GRN69CHV - 427 is a 2 bolt main and have the heads already

I want a sleeper, that's why a small blower. I dont want a huge cowl hood either, I'm thinking a 2" cowl hood would work with this setup.

I don't understand why a 454 w/ around 600 horse would have a problem achieving 750 HP w/ a blower?

Small converter? Size wise or stall wise? I went with that one because my car currently runs and I got this converter from a buddy(bought it new and sat on shelf) and it had the antiballooning plate for nitrous. I figured this would be good for a blower motor for all of the low end torque and my heavy foot.

the reason a 600hp may not make 750 with a blower is those style blowers are positive displacement units it will only move so much air and the harder it works the hotter the air the hotter the air the less hp gain per unit of air...... Now if that is the case you have a blower that can't flow enough COOL air to make the power your looking for..... or it may not even flow enough air to make your goal at all. put that blower on a 850hp engine and it will choke the big motor down to whatever flow the blower will allow
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  #7  
Old Aug 24th, 11, 10:34 AM
camaroman7d camaroman7d is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

The 2 bolt main would be fine (IMO). Here's the deal, the 454 is not going to be a 600HP engine without the blower, if it is built for a blower (meaning slightly lower compression, the right cam). Normally you would want between 7.5 and 8.5:1 compression, but since it's a smaller blower and not going to make a lot of boost on an engine of that size, you might get away with 9:1 assuming you build it to make power at lower RPM's and don't over spin the blower.

Do a little research before you start buying parts. A good place to start is a book called Street Supercharging by SA Designs. It does not have all the answers, but it will give you a good foundation. That book and a little time up front will save you a lot of money and time down the line.

Even if the engine only make 650HP it is going to feel a lot different than a N/A 650HP, roots blowers make gobs of torque from off idle. The throttle response is silly too. That TCI converter is not going to live long behind a blown big block either.
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  #8  
Old Aug 24th, 11, 11:03 AM
GRN69CHV GRN69CHV is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

My sentiments exact. I'd freshen up the 427.030 using the steel crank. Pistons and rods of whatever choice to net compression. Invest in a steel core hyd roller with the good Morel lifters. Something maybe 240/250, 650/.650, 112lsa. It will be a good solid reliable 600 hp motor.
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  #9  
Old Aug 25th, 11, 5:28 PM
671jimmy 671jimmy is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

The B & M Supercharger Technical Manual is now out of print, but has this to say about a 174 on big bolck
"Currently we feel the 250 blower is a far better choice than a 174 for applications where a low profile blower is required. Since you have to spin a 174 pretty fast to make much boost on a big block we recommend the speed (and boost) be reduced in those situations where constant boost is required such as marine or towing applications"
They go on to recommend for longer and more reliable service in heavy duty use gearing be reduced to produce 4 or 5 pounds of boost. B & M tested a 454 with open chamber rectangular port heads and Chevy #6272989 high performance cam with a 174 driven at 2.24:1 and screwed 510 hp out of it with 580 foot lbs at 6lbs boost.
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  #10  
Old Aug 25th, 11, 5:55 PM
Calculated Risk Calculated Risk is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by gra4er View Post

I don't understand why a 454 w/ around 600 horse would have a problem achieving 750 HP w/ a blower?
.

Thats what you need to research and learn about. You cannot expect to make a post on the internet and then just have people tell you what needs to be done. You'd build the car 10 times, 10 different ways and still not know why or how.


I'll give you a few hints. You probably don't have the parts there with 9.0:1 compression to make 600 hp n/a. Then suppose you actually did, the engine would be on the edge on pump gas at 600hp na, Now your going to throw a heat pump (hint,hint) onto an engine on the edge, only problem is, your super heating (hint) the air making this engine a great canidate for detonation. Detonation I say? Yeah. You say "no problem", "I have this fancy box that stops detonation", after showing you chunks of your pistons I then inform you that the box doesn't stop spark knock, It just removes timing, you still need to determine the correct amount to remove and if you guess wrong, you'll still have detonation.

You CAN put that blower on your 454, But in some states you CAN marry your cousin.
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Old Aug 25th, 11, 6:14 PM
brngrhd brngrhd is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
You CAN put that blower on your 454, But in some states you CAN marry your cousin.
So your saying the end result would be retarded LOL
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  #12  
Old Aug 25th, 11, 8:26 PM
GRN69CHV GRN69CHV is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by brngrhd View Post
So your saying the end result would be retarded LOL
Well, maybe a little slow?

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Weiand buy the B&M blower line? Pretty sure Weiand still has the 174, low profile, teflon tipped blower.
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Old Aug 26th, 11, 9:34 AM
camaroman7d camaroman7d is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRN69CHV View Post
Well, maybe a little slow?

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Weiand buy the B&M blower line? Pretty sure Weiand still has the 174, low profile, teflon tipped blower.

Holley owns both of them now. The teflon strips aren't a great idea for a street car. Better to have the rotor clearances set up correctly and then you never have to worry about the boost changing as the strips wear out or start coming apart.
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  #14  
Old Aug 26th, 11, 6:01 PM
ironhead ironhead is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Erik...imo,you have set your sights to high.Expecting a reliable 750 hp with a baby blower atop an iron head 454 on pump swill is a long shot,to say the least.
If you start off with a 9/1 static cr...decent heads and a blower friendly cam grind...expect the 2-1 overdriven 174 to add about 80 hp to the 460 hp 454 n/a.I think 550hp/590 ft lbs is realistic and easily attainable with your parts.
If you want to keep it all underhood and are stuck on your power goals...time to sell off the mini blower and consider a blow thru centrifugal supercharger.
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  #15  
Old Sep 8th, 11, 9:49 AM
gra4er gra4er is offline
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Default Re: Blown 454 with B&M 174

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
Thats what you need to research and learn about. You cannot expect to make a post on the internet and then just have people tell you what needs to be done. You'd build the car 10 times, 10 different ways and still not know why or how.

So, this is not a site where knowledge exists? I asked this question to find out if anyone had done it or what others have experienced. I know plenty about having to do my research, I just wanted some pointers from other people.

Thanks for the advice, but why talk down to me? I'm just trying to learn from others experience.

Thanks to everyone else for the responses.
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