200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok? - Chevelle Tech
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Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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  #1  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 2:07 AM
1971 Chevelle SS 1971 Chevelle SS is offline
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Default 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

I want to install a 200-4R trans and a new converter in my 71 Chevelle.
Do I really need a lockup converter or will simply having 4th gear do the job when upgrading from the 3-speed TH350?
The car will see mostly local street duty with occasional highway trips.

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 7:42 AM
SSuper Dave SSuper Dave is offline
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Use the lockup. Its easy to do and drops the rpms another 300 or so, and keeps the trans temps cooler. I can't see a reason to not use it.
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  #3  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSuper Dave View Post
Use the lockup. Its easy to do and drops the rpms another 300 or so, and keeps the trans temps cooler. I can't see a reason to not use it.
x2 I did it in my 86 Cutlass.
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  #4  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 1:48 PM
jakeshoe jakeshoe is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

There's nothing wrong with using non-lockup.
With modern converter technology, NLU works fine and is what I prefer in a retrofit application.

I've done dozens of retrofits, some on my own cars. I've been building these transmissions for years and my thoughts on this have changed over time.

I typically believe in keeping the modern technology. If the trans has the capability of locking up the converter, why give that up?

I'll tell you why...
Because the lockup is a PITA to ever make work reasonably close to how the OEM's intended it to.

Pretty much since their inception, lockup transmissions had an ECM controlling them.
Some very early units did not and the OEMs used a Rube Goldberg control scheme that you will have to try to copy if you want a reasonably well working lockup.

You can just wire in a toggle switch.
You can wire it up for 4th gear only lockup.
You can do a latching relay switch.
You can wire in a vacuum switch, which will then need a delay valve.
You can use a somewhat expensive speed control sytem.
Or you can use a combination of some or all of the above sytems.

I've played with all of them.
I've spent countless hours trying to make them work better.
Then we did a few non-lockup cars and I decided it was way better.

A toggle switch is just that. Not the safest method.
4th gear only causes chugging problems, so the first thing you do is add a vacuum switch, you then get a scenario where it will go into lockup and immediately lose vacuum, and unlock. As soon as it unlocks, it lessens the load on the engine, builds vacuum, and locks back up again, which causes the engine to load, dropping vacuum.... See where that's going?
So you add a delay valve to the circuit. That helps and usually that makes a decently working system assuming you have either an adjustable vacuum switch or a near stock engine.

Latching relay that kills lockup based on bake pedal application is a step up from the toggle switch.

The speed control system like B&M sells works OK, add in a vacuum switch aand delay valve and you have near factory control. But you also have $250 in the whole mess.

Non-lockup with a good converter is way less hassle, less expensive and works well.
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  #5  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 7:39 PM
Two Lane Two Lane is offline
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Thumbs up 200-4R w/a Lockup Converter is the A-ticket

Lock-up is easy to do, easily done right, & presents no probs.

On all but some super-maxed strip-only, lock-up converters are awesome!


Highly-recommended, and especially w/your combo.


The 200-4R transmission, with a lock-up converter, is the best trans/converter combo!

Enjoy!
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  #6  
Old Dec 24th, 10, 8:46 PM
jakeshoe jakeshoe is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R w/a Lockup Converter is the A-ticket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Lane View Post
Lock-up is easy to do, easily done right, & presents no probs.

On all but some super-maxed strip-only, lock-up converters are awesome!


Highly-recommended, and especially w/your combo.


The 200-4R transmission, with a lock-up converter, is the best trans/converter combo!

Enjoy!
If its super easy to do explain how you do it.
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  #7  
Old Dec 25th, 10, 5:37 AM
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Is there a change that should be made to the trans internally when using a non locking converter in order to prevent trans damage?
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  #8  
Old Dec 25th, 10, 12:16 PM
SSuper Dave SSuper Dave is offline
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

I've always done them with 4th gear lockup and lived with the lugging, or manually chosen 3rd gear if speed warranted it to keep it from hunting. Houston has a lot of highways, so most of the time, it goes 3-4 and you continue to accel and there is no lugging. I'd be interested as well, I have a 2004R on deck for my '68 Caprice and would consider a non lockup based on Jake's recommendations.
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  #9  
Old Dec 25th, 10, 2:01 PM
jakeshoe jakeshoe is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by von View Post
Is there a change that should be made to the trans internally when using a non locking converter in order to prevent trans damage?
Yes,
it can be done with the pan off and the trans out.
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  #10  
Old Dec 28th, 10, 6:50 PM
1971 Chevelle SS 1971 Chevelle SS is offline
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Thanks for the info, Jake. I knew there was someone out there who feels the same as I do about lockup converters.

What exactly needs to be done to the trans when using a non-lockup converter? Is the modification a requirement or just a strong suggestion?
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  #11  
Old Dec 28th, 10, 8:32 PM
jakeshoe jakeshoe is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971 Chevelle SS View Post
Thanks for the info, Jake. I knew there was someone out there who feels the same as I do about lockup converters.

What exactly needs to be done to the trans when using a non-lockup converter? Is the modification a requirement or just a strong suggestion?
A kit has to be installed in the pump that replaces the tcc valve and allows proper lube feed when in OD.
It's mandatory unless you like replacing transmissions.
you also remove the capsuled checkball in the end of the input shaft (pita).
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  #12  
Old Dec 29th, 10, 8:41 AM
vetteman_72 vetteman_72 is offline
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeshoe View Post
A kit has to be installed in the pump that replaces the tcc valve and allows proper lube feed when in OD.
It's mandatory unless you like replacing transmissions.
you also remove the capsuled checkball in the end of the input shaft (pita).
Jake,
So if I have a 200 4r that has an unknown origin- as far as whether it had a lock-up converter or not, what is the best way to determine it? Do you have side by side examples of the pumps internals? I have begun a tear-down of certain components, but have not yet disassembled the sub-assemblies. I am looking to use the TCI 242600 which I already have. Street/highway cruiser only. Your opinion: Bad, good, or indifferent?
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  #13  
Old Jun 7th, 11, 7:07 PM
LevonH LevonH is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

Hi all.
We're dealing with an 88 Monte Carlo SS (30000 mile car which is also for sale at the moment) that shifts up or locks up early. Will reset the TV cable then determine next steps. Will we ever get this trans to act the way it should and not lock up so early? Apparently this has been going on for a long time but the car is being taken out of storage and been in storage for a "few" years.

I know this is an older post but any help would be appreciated.
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  #14  
Old Jun 17th, 11, 1:00 AM
LevonH LevonH is online now
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Default Re: 200-4R and Non-Lockup Converter Ok?

TTT Any suggestions
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