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  #1  
Old May 12th, 10, 1:50 PM
big_orange big_orange is offline
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Scott
 
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Default the '416' head thread

Wow definitely some interest and difference of opinions on the ole 305 HO heads! The timing couldnt be more perfect for this experiment, as im building a LOW buck smallblock for project 'bottom dollar'- a 75 Monza coupe drag car for the family, buddies and myself to thrash on when we feel the need...... and plan to run a set of factory heads on it.
I am a BIG fan of the vortec heads, but theres been some talk about these 416 castings working very well with minimal work, and those small chambers would really boost compression too!
I still say vortec is the way to go, as they kick butt right out of the box (and REALLY wake up with a quick exhaust port job) but since I have an old set of 416s in the corner and no vortecs, lets see what happens!
Follow along as the work begins
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"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

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  #2  
Old May 12th, 10, 2:02 PM
big_orange big_orange is offline
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Scott
 
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

FLOW NUMBERS!
stock 416s, right off the motor, untouched. tested at 28" on superflow SF600 bench, 4.06 bore. clay radius @ intake port, no pipe on exhaust.

IN EX

.1- 49/41
.2- 103/82
.3- 153/105
.4- 180/115
.5- 184/118
.6- 185/120

Obviously, if you have a good used set of vortecs, use them, as they flow approx 220/135 in stock form, and 225/170 with a quick fluff n buff.
However, before spending 550-600 a pair for new vortecs, you might be better off getting a set of reworked 416s....im feeling confident that these babys will match the vortecs easily with a 1.94 valve and some bowl and chamber work!!!!
__________________
"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSAb32NEE
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  #3  
Old May 12th, 10, 3:31 PM
kettbo kettbo is offline
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George
 
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

this could get interesting. Thanks for your work here
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o 70 Elky 496 build coming damn soon!
$2000 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 22 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
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  #4  
Old May 12th, 10, 3:37 PM
jeff swisher jeff swisher is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

What did the 416 have in it as far as the intake valve diameter...
if it is 1.84 be nice to see what you get with a bowl cleanup and the stock valve
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  #5  
Old May 12th, 10, 3:49 PM
richietables richietables is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Thanks, Scott for starting this thread- The Vortec one really got hijacked and I'm a big part of the blame. Like I said, the low-budget solution for a 283 buildup made either 416's or 601's a no-brainer (good thing, I'm not so smart sometimes...) My option was to use the double humps still sitting on my 327; but even the 64 cc's were to big and the compression would drop. Likewise, anything bigger than a 1.94" valve wouldn't fit the small bore. Mine are done 1.94"/1.50".
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  #6  
Old May 12th, 10, 3:52 PM
jeff swisher jeff swisher is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

here are some numbers i got with a 601 head my first set
stock valves 1.84 & 1.50's and stock factory valve job just blending the bowls and lapping the valves,and some chamber work
The throats were opened up to .85% on this heads
I will be curious as to how the 416 heads do ...I need to finish the 1.94-1.60 "601" castings i am working on..did not plan to flow them but i could.

IN EX

.1-----
.2-116/95
.3-166/127
.4-199/159
.5-208/171
.6-211/174
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  #7  
Old May 12th, 10, 5:38 PM
Highway Star Highway Star is online now
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

This is going to be cool. Looks like the baseline has been established.
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  #8  
Old May 12th, 10, 6:12 PM
BillsCamino BillsCamino is online now
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Kinda sounds a lot like the 283 I recently built...
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  #9  
Old May 12th, 10, 6:25 PM
big_orange big_orange is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
What did the 416 have in it as far as the intake valve diameter...
if it is 1.84 be nice to see what you get with a bowl cleanup and the stock valve
these had the stock 1.84/1.5 valves, and that is exactly what the plan is..to see what they will go to without a bigger valve

the intake throats are already huge, and theres not much room for a nice cut below the 45 on the seat. Ive got some tricks up the old sleeve though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richietables View Post
Thanks, Scott for starting this thread- The Vortec one really got hijacked and I'm a big part of the blame. Like I said, the low-budget solution for a 283 buildup made either 416's or 601's a no-brainer (good thing, I'm not so smart sometimes...) My option was to use the double humps still sitting on my 327; but even the 64 cc's were to big and the compression would drop. Likewise, anything bigger than a 1.94" valve wouldn't fit the small bore. Mine are done 1.94"/1.50".
This whole thing started when Jake (highway star) mentioned something about small chamber heads and i told him the vortecs are small-ish just like 305 heads. Talk about foot-in-mouth when I actually cc'd one of these 416s WOW! Had NO idea!
I love them small inch smallblocks, but never realized there was a halfway decent budget factory head with a small enough chamber to make any compression. These things would be an absolute A+ on a little 283!!!
Im starting to wonder about stealing the crank out of the monza's original 262 v8 and see what combination I can come up with for stock pistons and rod lengths.....3.1 stroke and 4" bore.....hello!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
here are some numbers i got with a 601 head my first set
stock valves 1.84 & 1.50's and stock factory valve job just blending the bowls and lapping the valves,and some chamber work
The throats were opened up to .85% on this heads
I will be curious as to how the 416 heads do ...I need to finish the 1.94-1.60 "601" castings i am working on..did not plan to flow them but i could.

IN EX

.1-----
.2-116/95
.3-166/127
.4-199/159
.5-208/171
.6-211/174
those are great numbers especially for a 1.84 valve!
__________________
"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSAb32NEE
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  #10  
Old May 12th, 10, 6:51 PM
Highway Star Highway Star is online now
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

You sound like you know what you're doing with these heads. You're going to find out that they will run wild on a 283, but they'll work and work WELL on even a 350. Keep those vortec numbers handy.
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Last edited by Highway Star; May 12th, 10 at 10:14 PM.
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  #11  
Old May 12th, 10, 10:13 PM
ls71chevelle ls71chevelle is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
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  #12  
Old May 12th, 10, 10:19 PM
Highway Star Highway Star is online now
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

I think it has yet to be determined...I'm running a 284, a bud is running a 292, and my buddy Jeff is going to be running one bigger than that here soon enough.
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  #13  
Old May 13th, 10, 1:15 AM
jeff swisher jeff swisher is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls71chevelle View Post
Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
that all depends on the retainer to guide seal clearance..what springs
but i have clearanced some that went over .650" more than you need for a street car..

i have checked some stock ones with the good umbrella seals and stock retainers and .450" is getting close...so dont just pick some up and think a spring change and you get to run the .480 lift cam cause you may get in trouble

i felt that the flow i got from the 1.84 valve was crap on my first head
but there was still that big lump below the intake valve on the long side
I did remove some of it to create the swirl ramp effect...
I had a few tricks up my sleve also,, and Highwaystar got some of them on his 601's

I kicked the chamber out around the exaust valve on 1 pair i play with quite far almost to the 4" bore size like i used to do on the old double humps with the 1.60 valves and it did not pick up any flow anywhere

i can't wait to see some of your tricks Big Orange
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  #14  
Old May 13th, 10, 1:20 AM
jeff swisher jeff swisher is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Have ran that old crane 518-536 on a 106 with the 601 heads but lost some lobes,,before i found out about the zddp issues.

next up is the same grind but single pattern .536-.536 and the duration at .050 on this particular grind is 252 at .050...at least that is what is written on the master lobe...will be running it on a 106lsa
have not decided on lifters yet...old style or EDM

daily driver of course
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  #15  
Old May 13th, 10, 12:59 PM
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Default Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls71chevelle View Post
Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
Biggest is not best.

I bought a set of 416s from a pal that were off an eBay ad. The 416's chambers were too small for his use. The heads came with 2.02/1.60 SS valves, .510" springs, etc. I removed the big chamber bathtub heads from my smogger dished-piston 350, on with the 416s. Huge difference going from around 8:1 CR to 10:1 CR . Unknown small cam in there but in 30+ years of working on my stuff and helping others with theirs, this is the biggest night and day upgrade EVER for a street deal.

Sometime back when I upgraded to mild 454 power, I sold the heads to Seattle youngster Chad. They went onto his flattop shortblock (around 11:1 CR) with a cam like a 60103 Voodoo I had ground locally by Delta on a 112 LSA. Full wt, 2800-3000 stall, 3.73 gears, DRs, Chad has run 13.1s at Bremerton. Some improvement available in this combo too. Torquey engine for sure.
__________________
George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 build coming damn soon!
$2000 454 is broken, ran well for a 3995# all-up wt.
1.631 11.727 113.37 91.47 midtrack 1.647 11.729 113.49 91.58 mph mid track
Bests 1.620 60 ft 91.60 best mph


o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 22 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
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