At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test - Chevelle Tech
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  #1  
Old May 1st, 10, 4:01 PM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Mike
 
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Default At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Hi All
Finally,,,,,

Here are the results from the head tests on Mike's engine
Old threads for some history
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294585

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316326


The first attachment is the RFD heads, second is the new Darin Morgan Profilers & third is the all new AFR heads
Note that the AFR head is untouched as it comes off the CNC & has 45 seats
Both the RFD & Profiler are 50 seats
All have a 2.350 intake, RFD & AFR have a 1.88 ex & Darin's Profiler has a 1.850
And just to be clear before it comes up,,,,
I will personally guarantee that this AFR head was not tweaked in any way to gain favorable results, no hand blending or modifications of any kind

I would have to say all three heads are pretty impressive
I would like to see the AFR as well as the Profiler with a different cam
All three would benefit from a better intake without question
The RFD heads were run with a cam designed specifically for them,
The Profiler & AFR were run with three different cams including the one designed for the RFD heads & the differences were minimal
The Comp lobes made the worst power in the Profilers & best in the AFR but the exhaust lobe is not what I would have chosen for either head

The surprising cam was one borrowed from Jim Moore with less lift by a bunch especially on the exhaust side but made great power

Cam specs for those that need to know
Bullet & Crane I measured, Comp is advertised because I don't have the measured results in front of me but it was very close as I recall as were the others to stated specs

Crane meas.
R268-4381-2S2-12-IG
300- 268- 186- .438
308- 276- 194- .420
Gross 788/714

Comp adv
RX 1810/1814
302- 269- 189- .470
310- 277- 196- .470
Gross 846/799

Bullet
R294/470 meas 295 264 188 .4700
R311/465 meas 313 280 201 .4650
Gross 846/790

All in all it has been a long haul pounding on this poor thing but it is still in one piece so life is good

Special thanks to all involved & especially to Mike who has been so patient with this & allowed all the testing on his engine
Now maybe I can get back to doing something that actually makes me some money,,,

--------RFD------------Profiler------------AFR
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  #2  
Old May 1st, 10, 4:19 PM
trmnatr trmnatr is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

That Crane .420" lobe opens pretty fast but closes slower, they also have a .4381" identical to the .420", just more lobe lift, same acceleration rates

I have the .420" on the exhaust also

Good job doing all the testing
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  #3  
Old May 1st, 10, 4:45 PM
69-CHVL 69-CHVL is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Ultimately, this motor makes the same power as the very first rendition?

Impressed with the AFR's...no work, and with in 20hp of the "exotic" heads!

Thanks for posting...nice to see how this motor cam along right from the start.

Good luck Mr. Foster - looking forward to some track time
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  #4  
Old May 1st, 10, 5:19 PM
trmnatr trmnatr is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Are the Pro-Filer heads "as cast"? I assume the AFR's are CNC'd? The RFD heads are CNC'd or hand ported?
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  #5  
Old May 1st, 10, 6:12 PM
fowl69 fowl69 is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

very nice mike , that is one killer engine .
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  #6  
Old May 1st, 10, 6:40 PM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Quote:
Originally Posted by trmnatr View Post
Are the Pro-Filer heads "as cast"? I assume the AFR's are CNC'd? The RFD heads are CNC'd or hand ported?
=
An as cast head done by Darin ???
You are kidding right,,, can't believe you even asked that

All the heads are CNC ported with the RFD & Profiler massaged a little
To be clear the RFD head was designed by Curtis, the Profiler by Darin & the AFR by Tony
All are copied after design by the CNC
Both the RFD & Profiler had some hand massaging done after the CNC to bring them more in line with what the original design was

The Profilers are the set that pics were taken of at the Chicago show & are up on Chad's site
The AFR's are Tony's newest creations & the only one's in existance right now but should be available in the near future

I will put up some pics of the AFR's later they are still on my camera.
Curtis asked that I not post pics of his ports so I must honor that

If I had the time to play with more cams for each head I know any one of these is capable well over 1000HP in a 555 compression engine with a different intake

Tony was very "tempted to massage" his but felt most would like to see what comes out of the box as delivered to everyone so that is what was used
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  #7  
Old May 1st, 10, 7:00 PM
540Hotrod 540Hotrod is online now
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Congratulations on some killer testing Mike AND Mike! I know how much work has gone into this bad boy to test all of this stuff....and I'm just glad to know it was someone else doing it all!

Most folks don't know how much goes into a test like this. Just lining up the parts and getting all those combinations to fit is a huge undertaking. Set up three different cams, juggle valvetrain geometry, ensure intake fit and match etc etc etc......all while trying to make a living!!

Thanks for all the work...this is really neat stuff. It also shows just how hard it is to get power like this and hard you have to fight for every little bit after a certain point!


JIM
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  #8  
Old May 1st, 10, 8:31 PM
3V Performance 3V Performance is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Hi Mike, been having fun? lol This stuff would have killed a lesser man.

Question, were all the cams on a 112? Readers might wan't to know.

Also why was the water temp so much colder on the AFR run? ( over look, or just plain had enough and called it close lol ) I agree cam was not happy the bsfc was higher. All in all pretty stout 555. Going to be fun.
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  #9  
Old May 1st, 10, 9:28 PM
VORTECPRO VORTECPRO is online now
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-CHVL View Post
Ultimately, this motor makes the same power as the very first rendition?

Impressed with the AFR's...no work, and with in 20hp of the "exotic" heads!

Thanks for posting...nice to see how this motor cam along right from the start.

Good luck Mr. Foster - looking forward to some track time
The AFRs are good but more important is getting away from the 50 degree valve seat. Mike, thanks for the good information.
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  #10  
Old May 1st, 10, 9:33 PM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3V Performance View Post
Hi Mike, been having fun? lol This stuff would have killed a lesser man.

Question, were all the cams on a 112? Readers might wan't to know.

Also why was the water temp so much colder on the AFR run? ( over look, or just plain had enough and called it close lol ) I agree cam was not happy the bsfc was higher. All in all pretty stout 555. Going to be fun.
Hi Tom,,
Not really but you know the story

Yes all were on a 112 & the Comp was moved from 108 to 106 to 110
It liked 108 best
I would really have liked to have a slower lobe on the exhaust closer to the intake at .200 but it is what it is.

I left the pump running before the last test when I put the cam back to 108 & just did not feel like waiting for it to come up,,, it was getting late & I had dyno burnout
Probably worth a few HP but the oil was close enough so I ran it
I almost did one more to back it up but,,,,, figured the neighbors needed a break
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  #11  
Old May 1st, 10, 9:42 PM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Quote:
Originally Posted by VORTECPRO View Post
The AFRs are good but more important is getting away from the 50 degree valve seat. Mike, thanks for the good information.


I will talk to you next week
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  #12  
Old May 1st, 10, 11:51 PM
Primer Primer is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

the profiler seems to have a slightly better bsfc number than the afr( and a lot better bsfc at peak torque) yet it makes less power.

could the higher peak power number be because the engine was so much cooler (about 30-40 degrees) with the afr heads?

also noticed the rfd heads had the worst bsfc. Im guessing its a lot bigger head per port volume?

can anyone give breakdown on cost of these heads?
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  #13  
Old May 2nd, 10, 1:39 AM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primer View Post
the profiler seems to have a slightly better bsfc number than the afr( and a lot better bsfc at peak torque) yet it makes less power.

could the higher peak power number be because the engine was so much cooler (about 30-40 degrees) with the afr heads?

also noticed the rfd heads had the worst bsfc. Im guessing its a lot bigger head per port volume?

can anyone give breakdown on cost of these heads?
What higher power numbers are you talking about?
The RFD head made the best power & no it was not a bigger head
The RFD & the Profiler are a measured 372cc's
The AFR is advertised as 385 but I did not have time to measure or flow it
I will do both when it comes off but would bet it is between 380 & 385 so it is actually the slightly larger head of the three
Also all three heads were set at 118-119cc's chamber volume measured.

The engine was not 40 cooler the measured water temp in the tower was, look at the oil temps which are measured at the filter.

Bottom line you could throw a hankie over the AFR & Profiler power numbers, you are looking at less than 1% difference

I would say the RFD head made about 10lb ft & 25HP more on average & as I said you could probably tune any one of these to the same or very close to the same power if the cam were correct which is pretty damned impressive given all the changes.

When it comes to power I do not live & die by BSFC numbers they are a measure of how efficiently the engine is using the fuel & trends may tell you there is more power there & may tell you which way to go,,
But just like the air/fuel ratio you give the engine what it wants so,,,
I do not tune an engine to either I tune it for what it wants power wise,,, unless you are going around in circles & have to worry about consumption

In fact I could take this same engine, lean it, make less power with "better" BSFC numbers

As far as cost it would not be my first question at this level but it is pretty much a wash with equivalent parts, none are exactly "entry level" heads

If you are wanting pricing let me know, I am a WD for all of them as well as Brodix which BTW I would have loved to add to this test but the owner of the engine may want it one of these days so,,,,, we had to stop somewhere
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Last edited by Wolfplace; May 2nd, 10 at 2:03 AM.
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  #14  
Old May 2nd, 10, 1:59 AM
Dr J's Performance Dr J's Performance is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

Mike great test!!! I have one question Why did you run the Profilers at 170+ degrees of water temp and the AFR at 125-130????
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  #15  
Old May 2nd, 10, 2:11 AM
Wolfplace Wolfplace is offline
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Default Re: At last,,, RFD, Profiler, AFR, 555 head test

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Originally Posted by Dr J's Performance View Post
Mike great test!!! I have one question Why did you run the Profilers at 170+ degrees of water temp and the AFR at 125-130????

Hi Bryce
Thanks,
Already answered above but it was because I forgot to turn off the pump when I was changing the cam timing
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...6&postcount=10
Again, look at the oil temps
The water temp was the tower temp, the engine was off less than 5 minutes between the tests & had just had about 5 or 6 pulls so it was not exactly cold
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